Whats the deal with ITV,C4, etc now?
 

So we had all the crack with ITV,C4,C5 disappearing from our sets unless you
had a subscription card. Then the HIGHLY irritating messages that flashed up
on the screen every 5 seconds which made watching the channel impossible.
Seems to me that many people will have given and taken out a sub with $ky to
avoid losing channels... and now the channels are still on and the messages
are gone?
Call me a cynic but was it all a ploy to line murdochs pockets with even
more money & boost subscribers?

"GH" wrote in message
...
So we had all the crack with ITV,C4,C5 disappearing from our sets unless you
had a subscription card. Then the HIGHLY irritating messages that flashed up
on the screen every 5 seconds which made watching the channel impossible.
Seems to me that many people will have given and taken out a sub with $ky to
avoid losing channels... and now the channels are still on and the messages
are gone?
Call me a cynic but was it all a ploy to line murdochs pockets with even
more money & boost subscribers?




SKY were taking advantage of the confusion that was created by ITV, CH4
and Five who failed to step up to the plate when the BBC withdrew their
funding for the FTV system, they are a business and given such an opportunity
I don't blame SKY one bit.
At the time that SKY were warning solus1 card users that their viewing would
be ending and they were in the right since the original Videoguard system was being
abandoned, since then the regulators have gotten involved and I assume SKY
have maintained the encryption during the consultation process.

Those people that chose to subscribe to one of the half price deals SKY offered
are getting the packages far cheaper than existing SKY customers so have they
really been ripped off or just the victims of their own ignorance/panic?

There has been a rumour that a FTV deal has been worked out, the cards will
cost £22 and work for two years, I have my doubts that this is 100% accurate
but it is the ball park.

Mike C

Mike_C wrote:

There has been a rumour that a FTV deal has been worked out, the cards will
cost £22 and work for two years,

This potential price just goes up and up. Cards cost all of a £5 to
make and post out. There are no ongoing costs. So any charge for an
FTV card should be in the order of £5 - £10 as a one-off and the card
should then work indefinitely until all cards are next changed.
Anything more than this is purely and simply exploitation by Sky.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/guiv
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
Mike_C wrote:

There has been a rumour that a FTV deal has been worked out, the cards will
cost £22 and work for two years,

This potential price just goes up and up. Cards cost all of a £5 to
make and post out. There are no ongoing costs. So any charge for an
FTV card should be in the order of £5 - £10 as a one-off and the card
should then work indefinitely until all cards are next changed.
Anything more than this is purely and simply exploitation by Sky.

--



At least be fair and balanced in assuming that ITV, CH4 and
Five can also be greedy corporate entities who are also looking to
skim some profit off of the system if that figure is accurate.
SKY charged a tenner for a replacement card and from what I've
read a FTV card cost £12 with like you say no pre-set limit.

Mike C

Mike_C wrote:
There has been a rumour that a FTV deal has been worked out, the
cards will cost £22 and work for two years, I have my doubts that
this is 100% accurate but it is the ball park.

Here's one on-line link to that rumour:-

http://www.newtownlive.co.uk/article...31009144907472

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
Mike_C wrote:

There has been a rumour that a FTV deal has been worked out, the cards
will
cost £22 and work for two years,

This potential price just goes up and up. Cards cost all of a £5 to
make and post out. There are no ongoing costs. So any charge for an
FTV card should be in the order of £5 - £10 as a one-off and the card
should then work indefinitely until all cards are next changed.
Anything more than this is purely and simply exploitation by Sky.


You need to get a grasp of economics Jomtien. **Cards** may cost £5 to
manufacture and issue in bulk, but they arent issued for free, you need
people, buildings, computers, software, phone lines, telephone equipment,
web sites, electricity and no doubt a lot of other things in order to issue
cards, unless you think they would somehow mystically appear in your house?
£22 would probably be no-profit to issue them. And why should anyone issue
them for no profit? Would you? No, I thought not. If anyone should pay for
them, its the government that got us into this monopolistic mess,(which
means us, the tax payers, or at least me, the tax payer) or more reasonably
the FTV channels who are getting new viewers and making extra profit by
getting more money from advertisers due to this.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)

Mike_C wrote:

This potential price just goes up and up. Cards cost all of a £5 to
make and post out. There are no ongoing costs. So any charge for an
FTV card should be in the order of £5 - £10 as a one-off and the card
should then work indefinitely until all cards are next changed.
Anything more than this is purely and simply exploitation by Sky.

At least be fair and balanced in assuming that ITV, CH4 and
Five can also be greedy corporate entities who are also looking to
skim some profit off of the system if that figure is accurate.

I will wager a small sum that the FTV channels will never see a penny
of any amount paid by the viewer for these cards. And they already pay
staggeringly high sums every year to Sky for encryption, sums high
enough to easily cover the provision of FTV cards to those who need
them.


SKY charged a tenner for a replacement card

And as far as I'm concerned this is not less than what they are worth.
I see no reason why FTV viewers should pay more than this.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/guiv
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Tumbleweed wrote:

You need to get a grasp of economics Jomtien. **Cards** may cost £5 to
manufacture and issue in bulk, but they arent issued for free, you need
people, buildings, computers, software, phone lines, telephone equipment,
web sites, electricity and no doubt a lot of other things in order to issue
cards, unless you think they would somehow mystically appear in your house?

All these facilities are already in place. Using them to supply FTV
cards would cost nothing extra. Indeed Sky have just replaced some 7
million cards without going under. They therefore have much spare
capacity at the moment. There is no need for extra phone lines,
support services, websites or anything else for FTV cards.


£22 would probably be no-profit to issue them.

It is widely supposed that the BBC paid about £10 or £12 for FTV card
issue. This was not performed at a loss by anyone involved (except the
BBC of course). So there is no reason at all why these cards should
cost the viewer any more than that. And remember that Sky are already
being paid astronomical sums every year by the FTV channels for
encryption services that incur none of the overheads you mention. The
cost of FTV card provision could easily come out of that money.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/guiv
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
Tumbleweed wrote:

You need to get a grasp of economics Jomtien. **Cards** may cost £5 to
manufacture and issue in bulk, but they arent issued for free, you need
people, buildings, computers, software, phone lines, telephone equipment,
web sites, electricity and no doubt a lot of other things in order to
issue
cards, unless you think they would somehow mystically appear in your
house?

All these facilities are already in place. Using them to supply FTV
cards would cost nothing extra. Indeed Sky have just replaced some 7
million cards without going under. They therefore have much spare
capacity at the moment. There is no need for extra phone lines,
support services, websites or anything else for FTV cards.


Not at all, those FTV cards would go to new customers, who would need to be
registered, and who would use up capacity on existing call centres. The
replacement of cards was done using their existing customer base, and didnt
involve people phoning up saying 'I want a card' so the cost was much lower
than if people called them. Every call into any call centre costs money. So
every person calling up for a FTV card would cost them money. Issuing the
replacement cards didnt use the call centres, but there also isnt 'spare
capacity' as you would know if you had ever spent any time hanging on for
someone at Sky to answer.
--
£22 would probably be no-profit to issue them.

It is widely supposed that the BBC paid about £10 or £12 for FTV card
issue. This was not performed at a loss by anyone involved (except the
BBC of course). So there is no reason at all why these cards should
cost the viewer any more than that. And remember that Sky are already
being paid astronomical sums every year by the FTV channels for
encryption services that incur none of the overheads you mention. The
cost of FTV card provision could easily come out of that money.


When you say, 'it was performed at a loss to no one except the BBC' that
it of course admitting that it cost money and someone took a loss on it. The
BBC also doesn't seem to mind wasting money (taking a loss)since it doesn't
have to work very hard for it, there is no resaon why it alone should have
subsidised thsoe cards, but it didnt even get ITV to pay its fair share.

But it seems we are agreed that a 'fair price' (=cost of issue) would be
between £12 and £22?

--

Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)

Tumbleweed wrote:

All these facilities are already in place. Using them to supply FTV
cards would cost nothing extra. Indeed Sky have just replaced some 7
million cards without going under. They therefore have much spare
capacity at the moment. There is no need for extra phone lines,
support services, websites or anything else for FTV cards.


Not at all, those FTV cards would go to new customers, who would need to be
registered,

Why?

and who would use up capacity on existing call centres.

Why?

All these requirements are nonsense introduced for no purpose. There
is no reason why anyone should be registered or why FTV cards couldn't
be sold pre-activated over the counter in newsagents. No special
support services are needed. It could be done very simply by post
also.


The
replacement of cards was done using their existing customer base, and didnt
involve people phoning up saying 'I want a card' so the cost was much lower
than if people called them. Every call into any call centre costs money. So
every person calling up for a FTV card would cost them money. Issuing the
replacement cards didnt use the call centres, but there also isnt 'spare
capacity' as you would know if you had ever spent any time hanging on for
someone at Sky to answer.

The BBC had FTV cards issued for £10 or £12 each for several years. I
see no reason why that should change.


It is widely supposed that the BBC paid about £10 or £12 for FTV card
issue. This was not performed at a loss by anyone involved (except the
BBC of course).

When you say, 'it was performed at a loss to no one except the BBC' that
it of course admitting that it cost money and someone took a loss on it.

The loss was the £12, no more.


But it seems we are agreed that a 'fair price' (=cost of issue) would be
between £12 and £22?

No, I think that the whole sum should be absorbed by Sky from the huge
payments that they receive from the FTV channels for encryption
services that cost them little or nothing to provide. Encryption is
nothing without decryption: the two cannot be disassociated and where
both services are provided exclusively by one company then one fee
should cover both parts.

If a charge is to be made then it should be no more than the physical
cost of card provision and should be a one-off fee valid until all
cards are replaced. Anything else is extortion.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/guiv
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)