On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:42:47 +0100, Andrew Norman
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:37:36 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

They certainly are providing the service. The service is registration
for Pout. You are registered when you phone and ask to be, so they can
bill you for it. The card is provided free of charge by Sky.

Yes, but the whole point of this is that the initial registration with
Pout fails because of the out of date card. That triggers Sky to send
you a new card. At that point you have to phone Pout to register with
the new card, you can't access Pout with the new card until you do so.

At least that's my understanding of the situation...

That certainly seems to be the case with my new card.

--
QrizB

I sound like I know what I'm talking about, but don't
be fooled.

Andrew Norman wrote:

They certainly are providing the service. The service is registration
for Pout. You are registered when you phone and ask to be, so they can
bill you for it. The card is provided free of charge by Sky.

Yes, but the whole point of this is that the initial registration with
Pout fails because of the out of date card. That triggers Sky to send
you a new card. At that point you have to phone Pout to register with
the new card, you can't access Pout with the new card until you do so.

How does this effect the legality of the charge? The charge is purely
for registering, not for card provision or service.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/guiv
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Tony wrote:
"Dale Richards" wrote in message
...
Tony said this:
[snip]
Well it looks like the rules must have changed then, cos I ain't got
any 'not authorised' message on ITV1 and I have tried the sign up
twice now. Perhaps they have changed the system. : - ((

The FTV card number starts with 089, is this a problem?

Should I ring them up and ask why it doesn't work...
Its vital when trying to register with pout on-line to use the exact address Sky thinks the card is at.
You only know you've got it right when the V1 card becomes "unauthorised" but this took 24hours for one of my FTV cards. Another one I tried was turned off within 2 hours.
If the V1 card was originally sent by Sky to an address other than your current one then you must use that address.
If you don't know what it was because e.g. you bought a FTV setup off ebay, then you are stuffed.

Jomtien said this:

Andrew Norman wrote:

They certainly are providing the service. The service is
registration for Pout. You are registered when you phone and ask to
be, so they can bill you for it. The card is provided free of
charge by Sky.

Yes, but the whole point of this is that the initial registration
with Pout fails because of the out of date card. That triggers Sky
to send you a new card. At that point you have to phone Pout to
register with the new card, you can't access Pout with the new card
until you do so.

How does this effect the legality of the charge? The charge is purely
for registering,

The customer is told clearly that the registration has failed.

Dale Richards wrote:

How does this effect the legality of the charge? The charge is purely
for registering,

The customer is told clearly that the registration has failed.

And at a later time it works and you get billed. What's the problem?

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/guiv
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Andrew Norman wrote:

How does this effect the legality of the charge? The charge is purely
for registering,

The customer is told clearly that the registration has failed.

And at a later time it works and you get billed. What's the problem?

That's the point though, when the user receives the new card (from
Sky, it doesn't come from Pout) it will not be able to be used to
access the Pout service. At that point the user has to contact Pout
and re-register using the new card.

And at which point he will be billed the £5. I see no problem here.
No-one is being billed for anything that they didn't ask for.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/guiv
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Andrew Norman wrote:
That's the point though, when the user receives the new card (from
Sky, it doesn't come from Pout) it will not be able to be used to
access the Pout service. At that point the user has to contact Pout
and re-register using the new card.

The phone number on the new card is for Red Hot TV, I assume they own Pout.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 07:19:00 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

Andrew Norman wrote:

How does this effect the legality of the charge? The charge is purely
for registering,

The customer is told clearly that the registration has failed.

And at a later time it works and you get billed. What's the problem?

That's the point though, when the user receives the new card (from
Sky, it doesn't come from Pout) it will not be able to be used to
access the Pout service. At that point the user has to contact Pout
and re-register using the new card.

And at which point he will be billed the £5. I see no problem here.
No-one is being billed for anything that they didn't ask for.

Ok, to the question:

"What is to stop them from charging the 5 pounds after they have sent
out the new card?"

You replied:

"Nothing."

My point is that if:

- the customer attempts to register with Pout
- registration fails
- is sent card free by Sky
- customer finds that card works for ITV, C5 etc
- therefore does not attempt to re-register with Pout and therefore
cannot receive the Pout service

Then Pout have no grounds for charging the customer:

- the customer is not registered with Pout (they were clearly told
that they had failed to register for their service)
- the customer cannot at this point access the Pout serice without
contacting Pout again, reproviding their new Sky card number and
payment details and being told their registration has failed
- Pout have not provided the customer with any service, as you said
yourself it is Sky who sent the new card free of charge
--
Andy Norman
http://www.norman.cx/

On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 05:39:07 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

The fee is not for service it is for registration. The fact that they
may get an onscreen message saying that registration failed doesn't
mean that it really did fail or that some automated later attempt
won't succeed, at which time they may well be charged. As long as they
asked for registration (which they did by clicking on the button) and
got it (at some point) then it is entirely correct for them to be
charged once they have it. Actually getting a card or getting PPV
service has nothing to do with registration. Of course, distance

I disagree, but I think it is time to agree to differ ;-)

P.S. not that it really matters either way, after all it is only a
fiver
--
Andy Norman
http://www.norman.cx/

Just tried the pout trick, and was surprised to hear that my digibox had
to be connected to the phoneline. I was told that there was no way
around it !!!
The only way that I would be able to get a new viewing card was to
subscribe for at least 3 months ;-(
desperate as I am - I had to do it !!!
Ah well, 26 quid for a new viewing card is better than no 3,4 and 5 at
all I suppose !!!!!

STEPHEN