In article ,
says...
Oh yeah anyone with a brain will realize using a CD player's DAC's and
sending analogue audio is not ideal, as the MC-1 digitizes all analogue
inputs prior to bass management.


which makes it a **** for music. If it doesn't have an analogue
passthrough then you're stuck with whatever colouration the bass
management and digital processing give the signal. I would never buy an
amp or preamp that didn't have a true analogue input - what a waste of
time. What's the point in buying a decent DVD player or CD player *at
all* then? You may as well buy a £50 job - especially as it'll likely
have the self same transport mechanism as a pricier player.

Dope.

P.

"Patrick Navin" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
says...
Oh yeah anyone with a brain will realize using a CD player's DAC's and
sending analogue audio is not ideal, as the MC-1 digitizes all analogue
inputs prior to bass management.


which makes it a **** for music. If it doesn't have an analogue
passthrough then you're stuck with whatever colouration the bass
management and digital processing give the signal. I would never buy an
amp or preamp that didn't have a true analogue input - what a waste of
time. What's the point in buying a decent DVD player or CD player *at
all* then? You may as well buy a £50 job - especially as it'll likely
have the self same transport mechanism as a pricier player.

Dope.

P.

I can understand your reasoning-you would want analogue direct input
(basically analogue pre-amp only) and not ADC'd, then processed, then DAC'd.
However I do not use the analogue inputs at all. I have no need to use the
MC-1 for Hi-Fi. The 8000S & Tag DAC20 sound better than the MC-1 for stereo.
But since the MC-1 isn't used for Hi-Fi it doesn't bother me. Because I use
it for films (and concert DVD's)- in Logic 7 mode and it sounds fab. :-)

I believe the Tag and Bryston units offer analogue bypass.. the Bryston is
way above my budget...haven't heard a Tag AV32R going, but their 7.1 version
is a bit too expensive (£3000 second-hand?)

I don't class a £270 DVD player hi-end (more like the £1600 Toshiba's) My
CD player is the Marantz 63SE (that was my first CD player)- again not
top-end, as I don't use the built-in DAC's. I wouldn't buy a £50 DVD
player- I want disc compatibility & reliability..not something that'll last
a couple of weeks (and have **** picture quality)

Betha haven't used a Lexicon before.

In article ,
says...

You've already said you use an off board DAC, you've already said you
wouldn't use the DACS in a CD or DVD player (you made no mention of
'quality') thereby implying that you considered any of your offboard
DACS (including the preamp you mentioned) as superior. Most hifi buffs
accept that offboard DACS add as little to overall sound as fancy cables
or the like. Snake oil Nathan.

Old age setting in? I said "are better than those in a good quality CD
player?" I have compared the sound quality from the analogue outputs from
the CD player and DVD player. Pretty poor overall. My external DAC and those
in the MC-1 offer far superior to the crappy sound from the CD & DVD Player.

You said "good quality" in your second post - not the earlier one. In
the earlier post you intimated that you would not use the analogue
output of a CD or DVD player at all. Consistency - your continual
bugbear.

Which CD player and DVD player? Have you heard them all? How have you
listened to the true analogue outputs if, by your own admission, your
MC1 digitises every source? What material are you using to judge them?


Read my thread regarding the Lexicon digitizing analogue inputs.. really the
MC-1 is best for digital sources (digital out from CD, DVD, DAB etc)

Which thread? If you want me to read old crap the least courtesy you can
do me is to put a link in. I couldn't give a toss about your Lexicon
digitising analogue inputs - all this proves is that you've never
actually heard the cd or dvd players analogue outputs as they are meant
to sound. If you are going to use the digital output why bother with a
decent Harmon Kardon player? Why not just pick up a Matsui? The sound
will be identical through your MC1 after all. It's not as if your TV has
DVI or prog scan so the picture wont be that different either.

Oh, and yes I have heard an SVS sub, about three weeks ago in NYC and I
was very impressed with it - however I've heard better subs for the
same money (the SVS is not musicak in the least - great for HC but I
wouldn't let it near real music).

That's great, since I now use the SVS only for films- I did use the SVS for
music for a bit, but removed the cable from the integrated to the SVS (will
use the Rel for music)

They are poor all round subs as they have an inability to reproduce
musical information - they parp in a horrible fashion with well recorded
music (Sparklehorse's "vivadixie..." album, The Jayhawks' "Rainy Day
Music", Buffalo Tom's "Sleepy Eyed" etc. It may well be fine for
generic, wide frequency recordings like pop music but for music you'd
actually want to listen to it's poor - no comparison to a REL Storm.


Which SVS model did you hear?

The PC Plus range - I heard two of them - both had awesome slam for
movies but that's about all. I heard them through an Anthem processor
and 7 Outlaw monoblocs - I decided against the SVS and have ordered a
REL.



Of course, real music is not something you would know about - with your
Madonna, overcompressed for FM radio tripe. Sheesh you are a worm.


I have a pretty wide variety of music taste... Madonna is just one I listen
to. You trying to be a elitest ?(oooh you listen to Beethoven, so must put
down other people)

I don't listen to classical and know nothing about it. I listen to lots
of music though, have played in a band that recorded 2 albums on an
indie label and been to well in excess of 1000 gigs - I own over 1500
CDs and 2500 or so LPs - I've been buying music and using audio kit
since you were at primary school - I'm not being elitist - just pointing
out that I have a wider frame of reference than you.

You've mentioned Madonna a few times when talking of music - I'm
criticising it because it is extremely poor material to judge the hifi
audio experience with. It features very little dynamic range (stick it
through an oscilloscope - no peaks and troughs just a wideband of
information the whole way through) and thus does not represent any kind
of challenge to the kit.
...and that's before you get on to the fact that it's crap, meaningless
over-marketed garbage by a has-been who only sells records because sad
twentysomething, bedroom bound ****s imagine they might one day get to
shag her, based on the fact that she seems to have had everyone else in
the world so there must be some hope for them.
I've not seen you once make a critique of film or music, it's always the
kit, the figures, the numbers the bass repsonse blah blah - you have no
appreciation of music because you're too caught up in the toys. Sad
really. Real music appreciation can be done on a mono radio if
necessary.

Patrick

In article , you say...



I don't class a £270 DVD player hi-end (more like the £1600 Toshiba's) My
CD player is the Marantz 63SE (that was my first CD player)- again not
top-end, as I don't use the built-in DAC's. I wouldn't buy a £50 DVD
player- I want disc compatibility & reliability..not something that'll last
a couple of weeks (and have **** picture quality)

Have you used a £50 DVD player? Take for example the eBench KH6777 which
was £37.99. Picture from that on prog scan was identical to a HK and a
Denon I tried. not only that it played every type of disc I put in it,
including two that the HK spat out. Paying £1600 for a DVD player is
moronic, you're just falling into marketing traps. Yes you *may* get
more reliability if you pay £270 for a branded product but that is *not*
guaranteed (look at Sony's return rate on the current DVD player range).
Don't talk ******** Nathan, take time out to grow a pair instead.


Betha haven't used a Lexicon before.


Bloke in the big house up the street has an MC8 and an RT 12 (can't
remember what amplification) , sure it's nice kit and sounds fantastic
but it's way overpriced and the user interface is a bunch of arse. My
Anthem AVM20 sounds every bit as good for a lot less money.

Nath wrote:
(which currently is only reinforcing my main speakers below 40hz).

PDR-10 = 42-115Hz +/-3.3dB.

PDR-10 is good to 42hz, and that's at 10% THD...anything below that
will be at a higher THD

http://members.cox.net/frankcarter/T...Sub%20Data.htm

erm never make an argument about thd and speakers/

Which CD player and DVD player? Have you heard them all? How have you
listened to the true analogue outputs if, by your own admission, your
MC1 digitises every source? What material are you using to judge them?

Marantz CD-63SE, Sony DVP-S500D, Toshiba SD-100E. Both DVD player sound
dire, the Marantz is pretty good, but the external DAC is far superior,
connected to the 8000S. Oh yeah also owned a Rega Planet 2000- that was very
good (90% SQ of the Tag DAC) The Toshiba is the worst of the lot.

I also have a Audiolab 8000S (also used Arcam 9 integrated) which is a
analogue stereo integrated amplfier. Used this for testing built-in DAC's.

Played back various music, from jazz, vocals, guitar acoustics that sort of
thing. The DVD players sound crap- harsh, lacking in soundstage.. CD player
(Rega) and the seperate DAC much better.

Which thread? If you want me to read old crap the least courtesy you can
do me is to put a link in. I couldn't give a toss about your Lexicon
digitising analogue inputs - all this proves is that you've never
actually heard the cd or dvd players analogue outputs as they are meant
to sound.

Yes I have. See above.

If you are going to use the digital output why bother with a
decent Harmon Kardon player? Why not just pick up a Matsui?

Because I want a reliable DVD player, good build, good interlaced PQ.

The sound
will be identical through your MC1 after all. It's not as if your TV has
DVI or prog scan so the picture wont be that different either.

Will be looking into a PJ soon. I've seen crap players going (Samsung 709)
dire PQ, compared to early our gen DVD players - which are far superior.

Oh, and yes I have heard an SVS sub, about three weeks ago in NYC and
I
was very impressed with it - however I've heard better subs for the
same money (the SVS is not musicak in the least - great for HC but I
wouldn't let it near real music).

It's a geat HC sub. That's what it's for.

They are poor all round subs as they have an inability to reproduce
musical information - they parp in a horrible fashion with well recorded
music

Parp?

(Sparklehorse's "vivadixie..." album, The Jayhawks' "Rainy Day
Music", Buffalo Tom's "Sleepy Eyed" etc. It may well be fine for
generic, wide frequency recordings like pop music but for music you'd
actually want to listen to it's poor - no comparison to a REL Storm.

Rel subwoofer is a good music subwoofer, but IMO not suited for HT.

You've mentioned Madonna a few times when talking of music - I'm
criticising it

Only mentioned her because some albums are badly mixed (with tons of
excessive bass)- so wondering how it would sound in a properly setup room? I
probably guess too bassy..

Paying £1600 for a DVD player is
moronic, you're just falling into marketing traps.

Agreed. I would not spend over £500 for a DVD Player.


Bloke in the big house up the street has an MC8 and an RT 12 (can't
remember what amplification) , sure it's nice kit and sounds fantastic
but it's way overpriced and the user interface is a bunch of arse. My
Anthem AVM20 sounds every bit as good for a lot less money.

I would not buy a new Lexicon. They're great, but way out of my reach. I
paid £1500 for my MC-1, btw. Came with 2 years warranty. The Anthem do seem
very good units. At £1750 could afford that, but got customs and VAT on top
(total little bit too much for me) :-(

If you want to know how badly your system can perform

You saying my Hi-Fi system is ****e?

That is if you know how to play MP3s through your system.

Plotted a subwoofer frequency response graph... so yes.

"Mik Foggin" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

Lastly I took it to a Sony approved repair place in Leeds who have quoted
me £116 to fix the problem.


Looking at RicherSounds web site looks as if half the DVD players there are
less than half your repair cost.
Two thirds of them under £200.

--
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group.

In article ,
says...
Which CD player and DVD player? Have you heard them all? How have you
listened to the true analogue outputs if, by your own admission, your
MC1 digitises every source? What material are you using to judge them?

Marantz CD-63SE, Sony DVP-S500D, Toshiba SD-100E. Both DVD player sound
dire, the Marantz is pretty good, but the external DAC is far superior,
connected to the 8000S. Oh yeah also owned a Rega Planet 2000- that was very
good (90% SQ of the Tag DAC) The Toshiba is the worst of the lot.#


Liar - you've never owned a Planet 2000.If you had you would have
mentioned it before now seeing as how you love to brag - you're just
saying it to try and give you a frame of reference to say how much
better than mine you think your kit is. You are the biggest liar on
Usenet - no point in arguing further with you as you have no clue and
you make stuff up - sad really.

You've owned it all, you know it all - you're the pub bore.


remainder of utter drivel snipped

P.