Home cinema - small speaker HC recommendations

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- - small speaker HC recommendations (http://www.homecinemabanter.com/showthread.php?t=17923)

small speaker HC recommendations

I'm after a set of home cinema speakers - and so far have only really been
sonically impress with Bose. I don't really want to shell out more than 400
quid. Any recommendations?
They have ideally got to be small - with sound that belies their dimensions.

appreciate any thoughts

"Nick Stewart" wrote in message
...
I'm after a set of home cinema speakers - and so far have only really been
sonically impress with Bose. I don't really want to shell out more than
400
quid. Any recommendations?
They have ideally got to be small - with sound that belies their
dimensions.

appreciate any thoughts

Monitor Audio Radius 90. M&K K Series. Ruark Vita. Kef Eggs.

I won't say anything about Bose ;-)

"Nath" wrote in message
...

"Nick Stewart" wrote in message
...
I'm after a set of home cinema speakers - and so far have only really
been
sonically impress with Bose. I don't really want to shell out more than
400
quid. Any recommendations?
They have ideally got to be small - with sound that belies their
dimensions.

appreciate any thoughts

Monitor Audio Radius 90. M&K K Series. Ruark Vita. Kef Eggs.

I won't say anything about Bose ;-)

He said he didn't want to spend more than £400!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gary

"dvdphile" wrote in message
...

"Nath" wrote in message
...

"Nick Stewart" wrote in message
...
I'm after a set of home cinema speakers - and so far have only really
been
sonically impress with Bose. I don't really want to shell out more
than
400
quid. Any recommendations?
They have ideally got to be small - with sound that belies their
dimensions.

appreciate any thoughts

Monitor Audio Radius 90. M&K K Series. Ruark Vita. Kef Eggs.

I won't say anything about Bose ;-)

He said he didn't want to spend more than £400!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gary

Buy a 2.0 system then- £250/pair for MA Radius, Kef Eggs are £90 each, etc.

In on 20/03/2004 12:47
Nath stared into the abyss, and the abyss said:

"dvdphile" wrote in message
...

"Nath" wrote in message
...

"Nick Stewart" wrote in message
...
I'm after a set of home cinema speakers - and so far have only
really
been
sonically impress with Bose. I don't really want to shell out
more
than
400
quid. Any recommendations?
They have ideally got to be small - with sound that belies their
dimensions.

appreciate any thoughts

Monitor Audio Radius 90. M&K K Series. Ruark Vita. Kef Eggs.

I won't say anything about Bose ;-)

He said he didn't want to spend more than £400!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gary

Buy a 2.0 system then- £250/pair for MA Radius, Kef Eggs are £90 each,
etc.

As usual you ignore the OP's question and answer a different one that
wasn't asked. He asked for home cinema speakers up to £400 - is it so
beyond you to either:

a. answer the guy within the requirements of his question or

b. just shut the **** up??

Have a nice day - keep wiping the SVS - you know those stains will ruin
it if you don't.

--
Patrick

Your friendly neighbourhood Trendy Uncle

Buy a 2.0 system then- £250/pair for MA Radius, Kef Eggs are £90
each, etc.

As usual you ignore the OP's question and answer a different one that
wasn't asked. He asked for home cinema speakers up to £400 - is it so
beyond you to either:

a. answer the guy within the requirements of his question or

b. just shut the **** up??

Who says home cinema needs to be 5.1? couple of floorstanders, couple of
cheapo rears and tell your amp you've got no centre or use the TV speaker
until you can get something decent. Alternatively, if we're being serious -
you can get wharfedales 8.1 pack (4x diamond 8.1 and a diamond centre) for
280 quid . Nice sounding speakers but you'll need to spend more to get a
decent sub - 120 quid will get you something but not a lot.

Have a nice day - keep wiping the SVS - you know those stains will ruin
it if you don't.

I didn't mention SVS. Sounds like you want one yourself. I guess you are the
placid BF wimpo who gets beaten up by his 4' 2" girlfriend, and is told to
get rid of his equipment. Sad really.

You know sometimes I think some of you lot are similar to Phil Kyle.

None of us are banned form AVForums because
we're too immature to accpt alternative points of view exist and that a
difference of opinion can often just be left at that.

Do you actually know the thread that I was banned for?

what utter ****e. Unless you live in a detched house 3 miles away from
anyone else there's no way on earht you'll be listening at 'reference
levels' anyway. If you're 'pushing' your kit you're an amateur and have
it set up wrong. you don't half talk utter cack

85dB to 7.0 speakers, 82dB on subwoofer. -20 on the display (so 10dB under
reference) Subwoofer peak limitor disabled, default settings for L7/DD/DTS
etc. Putting on Titan AE, Toy Story 2 intro makes make quickly reduce volume
because of the nasty noises emitaing from the subwoofer (not quite bottoming
out, but sounding bad) can tell it's near the limit. I'm not stupid enough
to set it to 00dB ;-)

SVS handles identical setup & DVD titles better and even +10dB hot with
ease.

99% of the time it's good enough for other DVD's though.

Good you've bought some stuff- :-) but I thought you were getting out
of HT for a while?

**** off you toad

Was there any need for that?

" I'm not stupid enough to set it to 00dB ;-)"

Whoops meant -10dB (reference)

85dB to 7.0 speakers, 82dB on subwoofer. -20 on the display (so 10dB
under
reference) Subwoofer peak limitor disabled, default settings for
L7/DD/DTS
etc. Putting on Titan AE, Toy Story 2 intro makes make quickly reduce
volume
because of the nasty noises emitaing from the subwoofer (not quite
bottoming
out, but sounding bad) can tell it's near the limit. I'm not stupid
enough
to set it to 00dB ;-)

SVS handles identical setup & DVD titles better and even +10dB hot with
ease.

Who gives a **** what the numbers are? You are a TOTAL TOOL - you don't
listen to bass extension or frequency response you listen to the
soundtrack. You know absolutely **** ALL about hifi because you have NO
CLUE how to use it. You are the dimmest **** I have ever had the
\ misfortune to encounter on Usenet.

So you've bought a 5.1/7.1 system and you're not going to use a radio shack
meter to get the exact channel levels per speaker correct? lol.
Go ahead and do it by ear- some people can (although a few dB out)

Figures are specious information designed for anal retentives. The ONLY
relevant test is whether or not the unit sounds good to its intended
audience. After all a Ford Cosworth Sierra is faster than a Merceded
CL320 but which one would you go to work in?

I'm not talking about "what's good" or not I'M TALKING ABOUT SETTING THE
REFERENCE/CALIBRATION. Read up on that before hitting the reply button.

(snip rest of bull****)

Regarding the SVS..

Which model varient was it? (16,20,25)
How many port plugs were used?
What was the SS filter set to?
What was the crossover dial & switch set to?
What was the connecting equipment, crossover main speakers, subwoofer set
to?
Where did you hear one going?

Also include picture of the SVS, as I do not believe you heard one going,
and just trolling.

"Kurt Hamster" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:16:59 -0000, Nath used
to say...

Regarding the SVS..

Which model varient was it? (16,20,25)
How many port plugs were used?
What was the SS filter set to?
What was the crossover dial & switch set to?
What was the connecting equipment, crossover main speakers, subwoofer set
to?
Where did you hear one going?

The above proves Patrick's point admirably.

Not one single question relating to the actual sound quality.

Well since he's the one complaining of the SQ, how can I ask otherwise?

If the subwoofer was setup incorrectly it would not sound it's best. But I
guess whatever you do to your **** subwoofer will sound bad anyway, so try
and put other people's items down. Love that mid-woofer you have.

Also include picture of the SVS, as I do not believe you heard one going,
and just trolling.

Go to NYC and take a pic of an SVS? I think you need help Nath.

I guess since he's probably visiting the crack houses he didn't want to
carry a camera.

In on 21/03/2004 14:27
Nath stared into the abyss, and the abyss said:

If the subwoofer was set to 120hz- would be locizable.

Tool - do you think someone with a $100,000 system that designs amps and
subs for a living is going to set his sub at 120hz? what kind of a
****wit are you? do you even read what 's posted?

None of those settings make a blind bit of difference - I'm sure my
friend (who designs pre/pros and subwoofers for a company not
disimilar to SVS in the US) had them set up correctly. I didn't like
the sound of the SVS - doesn't mean they are crap but proves the
point that it's all subjective.

I note you never once asked about listening material or listening
experience because you're an idiot who knows **** all.

P.

If the subwoofer is setup incorrectly, then it'll sound crap
regardless of material (CD's, DVD's etc). You could deliberately fook
up your system settings and make it sound terrible (ie subwoofer +30dB
hot, etc) does that mean your equipment is rubbish? No.. but it means
any auditioning of the equipment will pretty much result in a
dissatisfied demo.

what part of "I'm sure my friend (who designs pre/pros and subwoofers
for a company not disimilar to SVS in the US) had them set up
correctly"

is beyond your comprehension? the guy is a professional audio enginer
with over 30 years experience. He started mixing soundtracks in the 60's
and 70's and then moved into audio design. He knows a damn sight more
than you'll ever know yet never mentions figures or frequency responses
or any of that cack when *listening* - he understands the customer's
requirements and he knows how to set up AV in his sleep.

Try reading the posts before giving your stock answers you cretin.

--
Patrick

Your friendly neighbourhood Trendy Uncle

what part of "I'm sure my friend (who designs pre/pros and subwoofers
for a company not disimilar to SVS in the US) had them set up
correctly"

Are you sure? Why not ask him- and copy his reply here... if he's configured
it properly it would resolve the questions I've asked.

So let me get this straight. When my friends listen (one very experienced in
audio gear) to my audio system it means jack ****. But when it comes to you-
your friends means anything? (to me)

I guess you must walk around thinking you're superior to everyone else.
About right coming from a policeman & ex-service people really. All *******.

is beyond your comprehension? the guy is a professional audio enginer
with over 30 years experience. He started mixing soundtracks in the 60's
and 70's and then moved into audio design. He knows a damn sight more
than you'll ever know yet never mentions figures or frequency responses
or any of that cack when *listening* - he understands the customer's
requirements and he knows how to set up AV in his sleep.

Patick Navin - "No relevance. I don't know him, so means diddly squat" - or
thereabouts, something you're said in the past (if I can find the thread)

In on 21/03/2004 14:56
Nath stared into the abyss, and the abyss said:
what part of "I'm sure my friend (who designs pre/pros and subwoofers
for a company not disimilar to SVS in the US) had them set up
correctly"

Are you sure? Why not ask him- and copy his reply here... if he's
configured it properly it would resolve the questions I've asked.

It's not relevant. He likes the sound of it - i didn't (for music at
least). Who's to say your idea of how to set it up is any more right
than his? Different room sizes, differnt accompanying equipment - oh
yeah and he hasn't got his bed or his teddy bear in the way.

So let me get this straight. When my friends listen (one very
experienced in audio gear) to my audio system it means jack ****. But
when it comes to you- your friends means anything? (to me)

Fool we're talking about the setup not the listening experience. I'm
sure your system sounds great, but you continually make out as if yours
is the only system thatever does. If your friends think your system
sounds great then they are right - it sounds great *to them*. I et they
don't constantly harp on about frequency extension figures though.

I guess you must walk around thinking you're superior to everyone else.
About right coming from a policeman & ex-service people really. All
*******.

So cynical and so young. So you know loads of policeman and ex-
servicemen do you? whathave you ever done for your country or society
you leech?

is beyond your comprehension? the guy is a professional audio enginer
with over 30 years experience. He started mixing soundtracks in the
60's and 70's and then moved into audio design. He knows a damn sight
more than you'll ever know yet never mentions figures or frequency
responses or any of that cack when *listening* - he understands the
customer's requirements and he knows how to set up AV in his sleep.

Patick Navin - "No relevance. I don't know him, so means diddly squat" -
or thereabouts, something you're said in the past (if I can find the
thread)

i haven't asked you to take his subjective opinion of sound quality into
account - i've simply pointed out that his experience suggests he can at
least set the stuff up properly. If you fail to even comprehend that
they you really are the stupidst person alive. Just like you can't tell
the difference between reference figures and the listening experience
you can't tell the difference between telling whether someone can
technically achieve a given outcome and their own undestanding and
appreciation of the subjective matter.
Idiot.

--
Patrick

Your friendly neighbourhood Trendy Uncle

It's not relevant. He likes the sound of it - i didn't (for music at
least). Who's to say your idea of how to set it up is any more right
than his? Different room sizes, differnt accompanying equipment

I can understand why you might not like the SVS for music- you have a
"musical" opinion- I'm not disagreeing with you on that- as we all have
difference preference for music.. not only hardware but also musical tastes
and speaker reproduction (I am however disagreeing with you regarding the
Rel Storm is superior than the PC Plus for home theatre) the Rel doesn't
have high enough output/clean output/LF handling to do the job within "safe
limits" in some modern action films. The only way I could use the Rel safely
for these films was to enable & setup the MC-1's subwoofer peak limiter
feature.

If you set the SVS subwoofer incorrectly it is not performing as it should
be.. for example would you send full-range audio directly to a Bose
Jewel/Cube sat? No. Email Tom from SVS and ask about setting the SS filter
to 12hz in a 25hz PC Plus model, with three ports open, near reference in a
large room. He'll give you a detailed explanation of why this isn't
recommended, and what (exactly) happens when this is done.
And if your mate knows about stuff- then should know the same.
Not that your mate has it setup incorrectly, but some people do. BTW I have
my 20 PC Plus in stock tune (no ports blocked), xover disabled, SS set to
20hz, sending it LFE via RCA. If I block one port (as done in the past) I
had the SS set to 16hz, and re-calibrated as the subwoofer's output is
reduced by a few dB.

I do not know the exact technical reasons of SVS (SS/port tune) incorrect
setup (know a little bit), but I know it shouldn't be done. A bit like
setting contrast in a CRT/Plasma to 100%. Someone might think it's "right"
but PQ will suffer, and damage to the guns or Plasma will occur. Doesn't
matter if it's in different room sizes, different accompanying equipment-
you'll still ruin the set..

Fool we're talking about the setup not the listening experience.

You can come back with his setup method..if he's set it up right then (and
heard it) then you've valid points of any listening experience AFTER the
system is setup right.

I'm
sure your system sounds great, but you continually make out as if yours
is the only system thatever does.

Nope. My system is not the best, nor does it sound the best (far from ideal
room) Although probably mine would sound better than a better system if
you've fooked the settings up deliberately to make it sound bad (ie any crap
echoey DSP mode etc). And vice versa.

If your friends think your system
sounds great then they are right - it sounds great *to them*. I et they
don't constantly harp on about frequency extension figures though.

Not constantly ;-) but they know what is good (ie for a subwoofer) and what
isn't.

So cynical and so young. So you know loads of policeman and ex-
servicemen do you? whathave you ever done for your country or society
you leech?

I have opened eyes. People who have been in the service are totally
different types of people than those in civilian life. It appears that the
training you take effects you (not just shut it off when you leave the base
etc)

I have paid import tax, VAT on every item I've bought, and N.I ...like 99%
of the population. This isn't good enough for you? What a surprise.

I don't classify invading another country, stealing their treasures and
reserves, killing civilians and imprison innocent's and then breaking the
geneva convention as the right thing to do. I guess the servicemen should be
proud of they follow orders from a aggressive western society.

i haven't asked you to take his subjective opinion of sound quality into
account - i've simply pointed out that his experience suggests he can at
least set the stuff up properly.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. I think I'm pretty experienced in audio gear.. I've
just recently found out that most newer DVD's have Cinema Re-Equaliazation
already done at mixing. The default setting for Logic 7 Film is with Re-Eq
on. So I switched it off. Slightly more detail in the treble (not harsh
though) A simple mistake on my part for leaving it as the default setting
for a while... could be done by anyone.

Learning new stuff all the time. Does your friend know everything? How can
you be so sure?

If you fail to even comprehend that
they you really are the stupidst person alive. Just like you can't tell
the difference between reference figures and the listening experience
you can't tell the difference between telling whether someone can
technically achieve a given outcome and their own undestanding and
appreciation of the subjective matter.
Idiot.

All the knowledge and intelligence in the world does not mean you have
common sense. I have seen that first hand from a friend that is very
intelligent & knowledgeable (degree in astrophysics, quantum mechanics
etc).. come to something blindingly obvious and they won't see it... until I
mention it and they go "oh yeah why didn't I think/see of that?"

Oh if you think I carry on about THD, freq. response etc.. have a look here
;-)

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=190281

If you notice he's got a SVS 1x driver sub, the SVS 2x driver sub, and a
HSU. I might love HT but wouldn't consider going to all the trouble.

I've bought three subwoofers so far... Rel Storm... crappy Yamaha (now
sold)... and a SVS.. hardly extreme.

Nath wrote:
Oh if you think I carry on about THD, freq. response etc.. have a
look here ;-)

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=190281

Just the fact that you bother to rad forums like that proves you are as anal
as the guy you're quoting (i've not clicked the link - one **** going on
about THD and graphs is bad enough)

If you notice he's got a SVS 1x driver sub, the SVS 2x driver sub,
and a HSU. I might love HT but wouldn't consider going to all the
trouble.

I've bought three subwoofers so far... Rel Storm... crappy Yamaha (now
sold)... and a SVS.. hardly extreme.

No-one's said that owning 3 subs is extreme - hell Tony W has owned 'em
all. The difference with you Nath is that you seem to need to constantly
bang on about numbers, about your SVS and about AV in general in a fashion
that both makes you look like a total tool and which holds no interest for
people who know how to use AV kit.

I've said it to you before - listen to the music and stop listening to the
kit - that way you wont find the need to constantly justify your purchases
and make yourself look a prick on usenet day in day out.

P.

The Storm can't handle what I listen to on these DVD's (and not that loud)
it can't handle slightly-louder-than normal level.. this is way below
reference.

please define reference? One would expect an average listening volume of
between 70 and 80dbA at listening position, I know my system will manage
that nicely. My preferred way (if not the book way) to initially set up a
system is for the test-tone at 70dbA from the fronts, rears (monopole) to
give 67-68dbA at same listening position, centre to give 70dbA, sub brought
up until it sounds right. You cannot set a true sub (0.1 only) with a meter.
Also I have noticed that a lot of programme material varies as to the
content of the .1 channel - and settings therefore often need tweaking...

Mine's never blown up. And I reckon I've probably set up bigger systems than
you (but I could be wrong) for listening by more people than you. And if you
can't hear when your sub's about to blow you must be deaf from listening too
loud.

Nath wrote:
None of us are banned form AVForums because
we're too immature to accpt alternative points of view exist and
that a difference of opinion can often just be left at that.

Do you actually know the thread that I was banned for?

Wasn't it everyone you took part in.

--
ThePunisher

"Tim S Kemp" wrote in message
...

The Storm can't handle what I listen to on these DVD's (and not that
loud)
it can't handle slightly-louder-than normal level.. this is way below
reference.

please define reference?

According to Dolby- set 75dB to all (or if using Avia-85db), and in use set
master to 00dB. That is reference. Maximum SPL output is 115dB peaks to 5.0
speakers, 125dB to subwoofer peaks (if all speakers are set to small 80hz).
115dB peaks to subwoofer if others are set to Large. Which is way too
loud..much louder than my normal listening volume (listen to -30 to -20
below reference)... hardly any subs can handle that - cleanly.(or even 10-20
dB lower than that)

And if you
can't hear when your sub's about to blow you must be deaf from listening
too
loud.

I can, that's why I had to use the subwoofer peak limiter on the MC-1 with
the Rel (still way under reference) If I didn't notice it (before I got the
MC-1) I would have knackered the sub, but I didn't ;-)

SVS handles the same SPL + more, so disabling Sub peak is safe.

You cannot set a true sub (0.1 only) with a meter.
Also I have noticed that a lot of programme material varies as to the
content of the .1 channel - and settings therefore often need tweaking...

I believe the RS meter is off by 3dB.. so if 75dB to all, 72dB to subwoofer.
Or for you- try 67dB to subwoofer. Yeah noticed some are "hot" -bloody
annoying- I don't want to increase/decrease subwoofer per film! :-X Perhaps
Titan AE & Toy Story are a few dB hot- but why should I have to decrease by
3 or 6dB for them two films? Why not just buy a subwoofer that can handle
the extra bass? ;-)

nick

Not audiophile but if you need to mix 'Lifestyle' looks with half
decent sound for less than £400 have a look at the Pioneer S-VLF3
system.

See http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_...onomy_id=62-99

Best regards

Joe

http://www.tmfsolutions.co.uk

You cannot set a true sub (0.1 only) with a meter.
Also I have noticed that a lot of programme material varies as to the
content of the .1 channel - and settings therefore often need
tweaking...

I believe the RS meter is off by 3dB.. so if 75dB to all, 72dB to
subwoofer. Or for you- try 67dB to subwoofer. Yeah noticed some are
"hot" -bloody annoying- I don't want to increase/decrease subwoofer
per film! :-X Perhaps Titan AE & Toy Story are a few dB hot- but why
should I have to decrease by 3 or 6dB for them two films? Why not
just buy a subwoofer that can handle the extra bass? ;-)

What annoys me is when the .1 channel contains the bass from the film score
(Monsters Inc does that) - If I wanted L-R lows to go to sub I'd set them at
small.

Tim S Kemp wrote:
You cannot set a true sub (0.1 only) with a meter.
Also I have noticed that a lot of programme material varies as to
the content of the .1 channel - and settings therefore often need
tweaking...

I believe the RS meter is off by 3dB.. so if 75dB to all, 72dB to
subwoofer. Or for you- try 67dB to subwoofer. Yeah noticed some are
"hot" -bloody annoying- I don't want to increase/decrease subwoofer
per film! :-X Perhaps Titan AE & Toy Story are a few dB hot- but why
should I have to decrease by 3 or 6dB for them two films? Why not
just buy a subwoofer that can handle the extra bass? ;-)

What annoys me is when the .1 channel contains the bass from the film
score (Monsters Inc does that) - If I wanted L-R lows to go to sub
I'd set them at small.

Sadly this is more a limitation of your equipment by the sounds of it. My
Anthem AVM20 allows me to send full range to Center, L & R whilst only
sending true LFE and surround low end to the sub.

P.

Patrick Navin wrote:
Tim S Kemp wrote:
You cannot set a true sub (0.1 only) with a meter.
Also I have noticed that a lot of programme material varies as to
the content of the .1 channel - and settings therefore often need
tweaking...

I believe the RS meter is off by 3dB.. so if 75dB to all, 72dB to
subwoofer. Or for you- try 67dB to subwoofer. Yeah noticed some are
"hot" -bloody annoying- I don't want to increase/decrease subwoofer
per film! :-X Perhaps Titan AE & Toy Story are a few dB hot- but why
should I have to decrease by 3 or 6dB for them two films? Why not
just buy a subwoofer that can handle the extra bass? ;-)

What annoys me is when the .1 channel contains the bass from the film
score (Monsters Inc does that) - If I wanted L-R lows to go to sub
I'd set them at small.

Sadly this is more a limitation of your equipment by the sounds of
it. My Anthem AVM20 allows me to send full range to Center, L & R
whilst only sending true LFE and surround low end to the sub.

No, it's not. there's definitely low end music in the .1 channel on Monsters
Inc (on the DTS mix, I actually haven't listened to the DD.. will do that
later) - doesn't happen on other films I've listened to recently. I don't
have many DTS discs (Pulp Fiction, Monsters Inc and League of Extraordinary
Gentleman) - watched pulp fiction last night and it's soundtrack is fine.

In on 22/03/2004 09:25 Tim S Kemp
stared into the abyss, and the abyss said:
Patrick Navin wrote:
Tim S Kemp wrote:
You cannot set a true sub (0.1 only) with a meter.
Also I have noticed that a lot of programme material varies as to
the content of the .1 channel - and settings therefore often need
tweaking...

I believe the RS meter is off by 3dB.. so if 75dB to all, 72dB to
subwoofer. Or for you- try 67dB to subwoofer. Yeah noticed some are
"hot" -bloody annoying- I don't want to increase/decrease subwoofer
per film! :-X Perhaps Titan AE & Toy Story are a few dB hot- but
why should I have to decrease by 3 or 6dB for them two films? Why
not just buy a subwoofer that can handle the extra bass? ;-)

What annoys me is when the .1 channel contains the bass from the
film score (Monsters Inc does that) - If I wanted L-R lows to go to
sub I'd set them at small.

Sadly this is more a limitation of your equipment by the sounds of
it. My Anthem AVM20 allows me to send full range to Center, L & R
whilst only sending true LFE and surround low end to the sub.

No, it's not. there's definitely low end music in the .1 channel on
Monsters Inc (on the DTS mix, I actually haven't listened to the DD..
will do that later) - doesn't happen on other films I've listened to
recently. I don't have many DTS discs (Pulp Fiction, Monsters Inc and
League of Extraordinary Gentleman) - watched pulp fiction last night
and it's soundtrack is fine.

Ah, I don't own the disc so didn't realise - how annoying!

--
Patrick

Your friendly neighbourhood Trendy Uncle

Ah, I don't own the disc so didn't realise - how annoying!

yep - very very annoying. Still I tend not to watch it and the kids aren't
that bothered (and often watch it through the old DVD player on the portable
in the bedroom...)

you're talking crap. If a REL Storm is bottoming out at realistic
listening
levels then you have it set up wrong, or there's something seriously wrong
with either your ears or your system. Reference levels mean nothing in a
domestic environment.

I said nearly bottoming (and sounding bad), not actually bottoming out and
clacking- at my normal listening level for action films. There's a
difference. I take it you can notice when excessive cone movement is
starting to effect SQ? And I'm not talking reference- I wouldn't expect the
Rel to operate at reference (115 to 125dB peaks) , I'm talking at my normal
listening level (way below)- I have given you the levels I listen to, and to
what I've calibrated to. That shows what it's set to..Strange you say "then
you have it set up wrong" when I've given you the levels, so how on earth
can you say I've got it set up wrong? DUH! Not paying attention? as you
think channel level calibration is for "dorks"

I guess since you've just bought the Storm you don't want people to put down
a item you've just bought (for HT), and I've had one for a while so know
it's limitations for HT.

I had to use the MC-1 peak limitor to protect the woofer for heavy
action films. Don't believe me? Try the identical settings as me (sub
-3dB below others) then try again... oops you can't.

How do you know I can't? I'm constantly amazed at how you seem to know
just
exactly what it is other people have, can do or cannot. Psychic are you?
Or
physic (sic) to quote you.

Because doofus you don't have a sound pressure meter...your ears might be
good to get accurate channel adjustment-that's fine..but a SPL meter will
verify that (we) are listening to the systems at the same level, and both at
the same SPL from each speaker, and work out at what level the Storm gives
up. Your Rel might sound good at your
level...but not at mine. My room is 4m x 4m.. pretty small (so would think
Storm be sufficient) When you output the test tone do you know it's 85dB? NO
YOU DON'T. I don't know your listening volume..perhaps your normal listening
volume is much lower than mine...therefore you
cannot understand why I feel the Rel is unsuitable for heavy action movies
in HT.

I suggest buying a SPL meter, calibrating to 85dB with Avia (82dB on sub)-
same as my settings.
Setting to -20 on master, then try the films I've mentioned. OK subwoofer
channel might be louder than YOUR listening volume (again that's fine) but
least get a idea where I'm coming from, and not just push it to one side.

The Storm can't handle what I listen to on these DVD's (and not that
loud) it can't handle slightly-louder-than normal level.. this is way
below reference.

Like I said, real world, not reference is what matters. Caught up in
figures
again Nath.

Nope. I don't listen to reference, nor do I set to a fixed volume on the
dial (as each movie is different) I just set to whatever I feel like. But
for comparison let's do the same. Figures is the initial xover settings per
channel, channel calibration & distance settings. Course you wouldn't ever
bother to do any of that and just plug it in? lol.

My frame of reference is the dozen or so complete AV systens I've owned
over
the past 17 years or so and my own ears. Don't presume to tell me I have
no
frame of reference you ignorant ****.

And probably not setup properly...you have no frame of reference if you
"guess" the figures on the initial channel adjustment/distance/speaker size-
if you don't even bother going to the setup menus. Sure
you've got your display in correct ratio? DVD player set to bitstream?

Strange a few other people have upgraded from a single Storm/Dual
Storms to a single SVS for HT. I wonder why?

Perhaps like you they've fallen for all the SVS hype?

Perhaps. I guess some might have...maybe there is alot of hype (but for a
good reason) for HT subwoofers- non SVS/HSU owners and other sub manu. do
not like
that, compare to more expensive subs. But there's SVS's Customer Service to
consider too. I'm very happy with mine, compared
to similar priced Rel- far superior sub for HT.

I guess a non SVS owner would see the hundreds (if not thousands) of SVS
threads and **** them off, especially if they have a more expensive
subwoofer, and is put down my SVS owners who also owned them.

Weren't you the one
who claimed that people bough KEF KHT 2005's because everyone else raved
about them?

Yes. But mainly because of magazine reviews IMO. And we all know who falls
for them (the general public) looking for lifestyle systems (Ikea look, bare
wood floors, tiny speakers, Plasma above fireplace)

You can't deny someone looking for "lifestyle" speakers would choose them
over "better & ugly" speakers?

I think the Kef Eggs are good value for money. I wouldn't buy them myself
for a "real" system, just for a posh PC audio system. Don't like it? TOUGH!

How does that make you any different in that you've bought SVS
because everyone else raved about them?

Because my good chappie there are reviews fom people that aren't
connected to magazines and those interested in looks/physical size
compromise. Most people who bought lifestyle systems have
probably never owned a HT system before (just TV speakers)... wheras those
who bought SVS/HSU
subs have owned Rel, Velodyne, Polk, B&W, NHT and other sub manufactuers.
Peoples comments towards cylinder subs are not tailored towards the item
looking "pretty" and "discrete" which is what lifestyle systems are about-
nowt to do with hi-end performance.

How many times have I seen customers look at lifestyle systems- but they
NEVER ask about sound quality.

After all you can't even claim you
listened and were blown away by the sub and had to buy it.

True. It was a risk. Many people from around the world buy Outlaw, SVS, HSU
products direct without hearing them going. Using it I was suprised at the
performance increase over the Rel for HT (and dismayed at Rel's UK "hype").
I guess there are happy and
unhappy customers for internet products (I've read a few who have been
disappointed with Outlaw's av pre-amp)

You bought it
unheard - something only a fool would do.

Then I'm a happy fool :-)

And how many people have bought Plasma's and Kef Eggs direct? LOTS. How many
threads do you see people asking for complete systems? I bet some order
on-line afterwards. At least I admit I've ordered stuff unheard, and put
down gear I've owned- ie B&W 601's have very boomy bass, and horrible
treble.

Define "frame of reference for identical system testing". Explain to me
what
the intrisic value of testing identical systems is and why you believe I
have no frame of reference. As I've explained my frame of reference is
that
I have owned a lot of AV gear and i have ears and I know what I like.
Figures don't mean much to me because I listen *to the music* not the
speakers.

Because we can work how loud we both listen to, and explain my
dissatisication with Rel/HT/Action movies. Someone might want to listen to
LOUD
constantly, in a 6,000ft cu foot room. It's pretty obvious the Storm
wouldn't fill
that sized room. So you would say "then you have it set up wrong, or
there's
something seriously wrong with either your ears or your system"- will be a
daft response. Need a sub with higher output (and speakers & most probably
amp) but without a system settings you couldn't work out squat.

Would saying "hmm I listen to it fairly loud, and the subwoofer isn't that
good" make any sense? Nope. Channel adjustment, volume you listen to (on
dial) and room size would explain why. Understand it yet?

So reference is too loud yes? In that case why do you insist that you
*must*
have a sub that operates at reference?

I don't. I said the (correctly setup) Rel cannot cope with my normal
listening volume in action films. Got through your thick skull yet? Oh yeah
witty remark "You've got it set up wrong" blah blah here's my settings
"85/82" witty remark "That means ****, that's for dorks" etc etc..

As long as the sub performs properly
AT NORMAL LISTENING LEVELS anything else is pretty much irrelevant.

True... but..

Rel- cannot do what I'm asking it to do.
SVS- it can.

Simple enough for ya?

que your remark "you haven't set it up right" sigh..

You've
just proved yourself wrong on every count by admitting that reference has
no
meaning to real world listening.

No you just said that...

" Reference levels mean nothing in a domestic environment."

As Max would say - BUSTED.

Reference is the "supposed to listen to" volume by Dolby - too loud though..
for others it's used to COMPARE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE USE THEIR SYSTEM AT.

I don't listen to it at reference stupid. I've done the speaker adjustment-
you have not. I listen to it at my levels (-30 to 20) WHICH IS RELEVANT,
BECAUSE I LISTEN TO -20dB- god you are thick!!! And the subwoofer is
incapable of sounding clean without any distortion AT -20 BELOW REFERENCE.
DO THE SAME!!!

Why can't you accept that some people might not like the SVS?

I can. All I can say is the SVS is far superior to the Rel for HT. It goes
lower, sounds cleaner, with no distortion, with lots of reserve headroom,
with no port noise (1 or 2
plugged), with no driver flapping, and goes much louder, by several people's
opinons who've heard my system with Rel, SVS and the crappy Yamaha sub (and
of course me). Can
you accept that?

You insist
that the setup must be worng

Did I say "must be wrong" NOPE. I said "Perhaps"

Totally different. Trying to put words into my mouth? I notice you're trying
to do the same thing as Max when loosing the argument- change words around.

because you can't bear the thought that you've
dropeed £700 on a sub unhead that might not be the best thing out there.

At £700? Very much doubt it (for HT) Unless you can recommend others in that
price range?
Rel Storm- not a chance. Left trailing. Even dual Storms
Velodyne CHT-15. Others have sold the CHT-15 to move to SVS
My sub outperforms a £2100 M&K. THIS IS COMING FROM A M&K DEALER!

Not the very best subwoofer? Undoubtly! DD-18, SVS PB2+/Ultra, SVS B4,
Contrabass, VMPS far
superior (according to other people) Do I dismiss their opinon's? Nope.

The
system WAS set up correctly, the sub WAS working correctly, I didn't like
it - live with it.

I can, thank you very much. You said"very impressive" for HT. I agree.

I could give you the information but it is meaningless.

No it's not. If you run your sub -15dB below all other channels that is
probably why you're not running into problems.

You cannot tell how
something sounds from figures Nathan

Well duh obviously.

if you don't understand that then you
have simply no understanding of hifi or audio in general.

I do understand. The Rel is a very good sounding subwoofer..upto a point
(for my HT). By
the sound SPL expectiations of it it's below yours, but above mine. That's
fine. Three other
people have commented the SVS sounds far better for HT than the Rel. Have
they looked at the THD figures for the SVS and assumed it sounds better
because of it? Nope. Afterwards I did, and explained it (probably bored them
a bit ;-) but one was interested in it as he didn't realize M&K have
something like 30-40% THD down low, the bloke confirmed it sounds better
than the M&K
that sells for 3x price.

I simply pointed out that you had
typed that you don't know why certain tunings of your sub should be done a
particular way. I certainly don't know them either - the difference is I'm
not trying to bull**** people or score points by denigrating their kit.

The "bull****" of me recommending not to do this or that with the SVS
subwoofer is told by Tom V. Take it up with him if you want. Since he knows
more about his own products than
you or I, I'll listen to his advice..and not do something else because it
might sound different (as it could be disastrous to the driver)

What's not normal about a diesel engine? Anyway you admit that you don't
know the in depth technicalities yet you still trhow numbers around
without
actually understaning them. Consistency again Nath, ever your bugbear.

You don't need to understand how a nuclear bombs works to say "nuclear bombs
kill people"

I don't know how to build amps, but I know high THD is bad and most
definetly effect SQ ...pretty obvious
really (and no I don't purchase amps if one has 0.05% THD compared to
0.06%THD) - although I would most defiently ignore one if it had 80% THD at
50% output. So what's wrong with that?

Expect me to know everything on a particular subject before you "allow" me
post to a reply on a subject?
ROFLAMO.

Superior according to who? According to you and a few other SVS owners.
Hardly an unbiased focus group.

One a Rel owner. Me (also Rel owner). M&K /Rel dealer. A couple of mates.

By your reasoning- if you said your Rel Storm is superior to that in the Kef
Eggs sub (which you owned?) then any comments towards the Storm is
biased.because you own it..duh! If that was true you would only listen to
newbie's with their first subwoofer..

I don't have any prrof you've set your
system up right

LOL!!!!! I've given you the settings of the MC-1 (speaker size) SPL channel
adjustment, volume I listen to, size of my room (and know what kit I own),
titles that give the Rel problems, those that don't. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?
BLOOD?

I don't have any proof YOU'VE set it up right.

that someone else may have a different listening experience with the same
kit - this means you have no objectivity.

Yes I can. Didn't I say "I can understand why you dislike it for music"

why would anyone do that? again stating the obvious as if it makes you
some
paragon of HT. You really are an immature and ill educated fool.

Because some people need to be told the obvious.

And because by your logic if they set it up like that and it sounds OK then
it
must be OK (must be deaf to not hear the drivers distorting)..despite being
on the verge of blowing it up. Bose recommends plugging all to the bass
module.

So now you ARE letting others determine your settings for you.

Only by the subwoofer manu. recommendations. The same is said by HTM owners.

Why not try
it and see what YOU think instead of constantly trying to keep in with the
HTM intelligentsia?

I did. Plugged one port, 16hz. Two ports, 12hz.

Again no ability to think for yourself and make
decisions based on your own listening.

See above.

I'm sure there are dozens
of SVS owners who would set up their subs differntly from you because
*they
like how it sounds*.

No doubt. I leave mine in stock...others will port plug it and adjust SS
filter (according to instructions)

Why would I follow a bunch of threads from evangelists? As to 'totally
incorrect' - well that's subjective isn't it. If the kit CAN be set to a
particular setting then surely there is a reason for it? Or perhaps SVS
are actually poorly desinged and incoporate lots of settings that are
useless
the user? I'm pretty certain the latter isn't true so I'm pretty sure now
that you are just talking crap again.

They offer a wide variety of customization, by SVS's recommendation,
adjusting ports then adjusting SS filter is the most wisest thing to do.
Tom said mis-adjusting it is OK as long as you don't exceed a certain level.
I wouldn't but I bet some would, and it would be safer to put it in
"correct" settings
Have you read the info on the site? Contacted Tom concerning "incorrect"
port/filter settings?

So where are the numbers then? How many servicemen do you know? ?How many
Police officers? Given your fondness for numbers they seem conspicuously
absent all of a sudden.

100% of them.

So your grandfather and father are complete *******? You said it Nath not
me. I guess that goes some way to explaining you - like father like son.

I haven't joined the services.

You
wouldn't get in to the military anyway as you would fail basic logic and
comprehension tests, not to mention your somewhat shaky grasp of the
English language.

Not from the idiots I've seen in the Army.

Like I said you wouldn't have got in.

Great. I'll let you run off and I'll stay in England :-)

Do you know what Executive Power is? Do you know just how much policy
control the average squaddie has?

None.

Politicians start wars, soldiers just
fight them.

And you tell me I state the obvious? LOL

I agree with you on the politics, but your complete lack of understanding,
and blaming of ordinary servicemen for the invasion, illustrates an
ignorance beyond anyhting you've shown before - including your Mac lies.

I'm not blaming the servicemen for starting wars you tool. Jesus I know it's
the governments, religion/churches and politicians (and recently
corporations that have a sway over congress) that start wars and not the
grunt, unless the grunt causes a international situation like pressing the
big red button
;-)

I blame what being in the armed service's do to normal sociable people..
they come out different (not talking if they're killed someone in line of
duty, post tramatic stress etc) Basically become "bossy" to civilians,
friends and relatives, and dislike it when a "civvy" stands up to them.

What, port tuning figures and sub settings? Is your life so ****ing boring
that these things actually mean something to you?

Only to you, as you don't have a clue. I haven't touched subwoofer settings
since I settled with stock tune. That say anything to you?

The settings were within
normal parameters, tuned to how my friend likes the sound - it was ME who
didn't like the SVS with music. Just because someone doesn't like an SVS
sub
doesn't automatically mean the settings were wrong

Again I didn't say "wrong" I say "possible"

there's a little more
to life than your ****ing SVS

Not for Tom :-)

I was never banned - and my argument to those on AVForums was valid, I've

You were going to be from your 'tute.

YOU got banned, primarily because you're too immature to post to a
moderated forum.

I got banned after quite a few posts. And I had "Bring back Nathan" threads.
I wonder if they'll do the same for you? With your 'Self-righteous *******"
way you'll last less than 100 posts.

Because I have a SOH.. unlike the Admin. Do you know the actual last thread
that I posted to? (and the reason I got banned for)

How does it go when you're losing Nath ? "Mods please
close" - pathetic.

That was about the Intel/AMD? That was my OPINION- I have used AMD & Intel
in the past...never touch AMD again. Oh there's a "expert" saying AMD are
perfectly stable, you just need updated drivers, pray to the AMD god so it
doesn't crash etc. Been there done
that. Still BSOD, reboots in windows, games, word.. Come back and report
that and they act like you. SELF RICHETOUS *******.

And as for the Mac-I won't buy one. Overpriced junk. And YES I HAVE USED
THEM FOR A LITTLE WHILE.

You are loosing this arguement regarding the Rel for HT- I have given out
info about my listening habits and settings. You have not, and are basically
trying to disprove my opinon that the Rel is unsuitable for HT - because I
MUST have something wrong. You are pathetic.

So far on UMD and here I've named several dozen bands and way more films
over the years that I've listened to.

Good for you.

Kinda rules out your 10 CD
assumption - plus I've mentioned in this thread that I have over 1500 CDs.
Just because you've never heard of 90% of them neither makes me better
than
you, nor does it mean I have better taste - but until you can actualy make
a subjective critique of music you'll forever look like a kit nerd.

Why should I have to list my "favourite bands/genres" to prove I like
music? I listen to whatever I can...and not ogle at the kit when it's on.

If someone listens to Vengaboys, would you assume they don't know anything
about good quality kit? SELF RIGHTEOUS *******.

What next? Penis size?

In on 22/03/2004 11:54
Nath stared into the abyss, and the abyss said:

snipped drivel

Oh my god Nathan you're so right about everything - you are a deity

learn to spell and get some social graces while you're ait it.

--
Patrick

Your friendly neighbourhood Trendy Uncle