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Plasma screen picture delay/lip sync
Hi there!
I've recently bought a plasma screen and have noticed that there's a tiny delay in picture (whether using the supplied speakers or a separate amp). Apparently this is because the circuitry in plasmas takes a bit longer to process/display the picture than it takes the audio circuitry/my amp to process the audio (wish I'd found this out before I bought the beast). We're only talking milliseconds here, but it is driving me genuinely slightly insane. I know I could buy an expensive new amp that would allow me to add a small audio delay to all channels for the audio from my Sky box/DVD etc but I'd prefer not to as to be honest I use the plasma's speakers far more than I use the neighbour-annoying amp - oh, and I've blown all my cash on the screen :-( My question is: does anyone know of some kind of inline SCART or S-video device that I could plumb in that would delay the audio to allow for the slight delay in the plasma screen? P |
In message , just me
writes Bottom line is that the set *shouldn't* give you this trouble - plasma screens do not inherently have lip sync problems 'Shouldn't' and 'do not' however are two different things ...... The first sentence should read *shouldn't* but many do.... -- __________________________________________________ Personal email for Gareth Jones can be sent to: 'usenet4gareth' followed by an at symbol followed by 'uk2' followed by a dot followed by 'net' __________________________________________________ |
In message , just me
writes Bottom line is that the set *shouldn't* give you this trouble - plasma screens do not inherently have lip sync problems 'Shouldn't' and 'do not' however are two different things ...... The first sentence should read *shouldn't* but many do.... It's been my experience that most (and by that I mean close to 100%) of plasma screens do not render lip-sync problems. People often see lip-sync problems which may be caused by souce problems which went unnoticed previously, or occur because screen and Digibox are bought simultaneously. That's not to say that screen problems don't exist, however people who post to groups like these are often more aware of these issues and so the perceived spread of the "problem" seems wider then it actually is. I think this is a bit like saying 20 years ago that your standard C60 audio cassette tapes don't suffer from any 'hiss' problems because the general public don't perceive there to be a problem. The OP is obviously one of the people who can indeed see the 'problem' with his plasma screen processing. As for your near 100% figure, either (and I mean this with no offence intended) much like an employee in a sewerage works who has lost his sense of smell, you are very lucky in having a brain that is incapable of perceiving the delay, are very lucky in only having seen sets that have such a small delay, its imperceptible; or the OP, I, and many others are very, very unlucky for the opposite reasons!! -- __________________________________________________ Personal email for Gareth Jones can be sent to: 'usenet4gareth' followed by an at symbol followed by 'uk2' followed by a dot followed by 'net' __________________________________________________ |
PLASMA SUCKS
BUY A VIDEO PROJECTOR AND HAVE SOME REAL HOME CINEMA IMHO. "Gareth Jones" wrote in message ... In message , just me writes Bottom line is that the set *shouldn't* give you this trouble - plasma screens do not inherently have lip sync problems 'Shouldn't' and 'do not' however are two different things ...... The first sentence should read *shouldn't* but many do.... It's been my experience that most (and by that I mean close to 100%) of plasma screens do not render lip-sync problems. People often see lip-sync problems which may be caused by souce problems which went unnoticed previously, or occur because screen and Digibox are bought simultaneously. That's not to say that screen problems don't exist, however people who post to groups like these are often more aware of these issues and so the perceived spread of the "problem" seems wider then it actually is. I think this is a bit like saying 20 years ago that your standard C60 audio cassette tapes don't suffer from any 'hiss' problems because the general public don't perceive there to be a problem. The OP is obviously one of the people who can indeed see the 'problem' with his plasma screen processing. As for your near 100% figure, either (and I mean this with no offence intended) much like an employee in a sewerage works who has lost his sense of smell, you are very lucky in having a brain that is incapable of perceiving the delay, are very lucky in only having seen sets that have such a small delay, its imperceptible; or the OP, I, and many others are very, very unlucky for the opposite reasons!! -- __________________________________________________ Personal email for Gareth Jones can be sent to: 'usenet4gareth' followed by an at symbol followed by 'uk2' followed by a dot followed by 'net' __________________________________________________ |
"Dirty BOX" wrote in message ... PLASMA SUCKS BUY A VIDEO PROJECTOR AND HAVE SOME REAL HOME CINEMA IMHO. I tend to agree. For a big picture a projector seems to be the most practical solution and currently offers the best price:picture quality ratio IMO. |
In message , just me
writes I think this is a bit like saying 20 years ago that your standard C60 audio cassette tapes don't suffer from any 'hiss' problems because the general public don't perceive there to be a problem. No, it's not like saying that. 20 years ago there were valid alternatives to domestic audio cassette tapes which didn't suffer from hiss and which provided a baseline reference for a "hiss-free" sound in the same way as there are mediums now which are perceived not to suffer lip-sync in the same way as plasmas, today. You could also buy superior cassette recorders 20 years ago compared with today and, many would argue, obtain superior results from these decks. On top of that, the cassette=hiss argument is as valid as the plasma=lip sync argument. A good cassette deck with a good formulation cassette can deliver a sensational sound in which hiss is not an issue. Hiss is most often an issue with cassette deck users because of misuse or misdesign: poorly set record levels, bad formulation cassettes with no headroom, dodgy tape deck designs which don't provide record level control etc. So, just as hiss-problems are not an inherent problem of domestic audio cassette tapes, I would argue that lip-sync is not an inherent problem of plasma screens. They might be faithfully reproducing a source problem or be of a cheap, bad design. You've misunderstood my point and in fact agreed with it! 20 years ago, the 'standard' cassette deck WAS a cheap bad design, but as most people were (are!) either ignorant of what a 'good' system could/should sound like, or just didn't/couldn't hear how crap it was, or didn't care!, hiss was most certainly there in most peoples systems at that time, regardless if there were better alternatives, or tape systems that were indeed of much better quality. I agree that plasma displays can be made to not give bad lip sync problems. It doesn't mean that all designs out there are made that way at the moment. Lip sync is most definitely out there! -- __________________________________________________ Personal email for Gareth Jones can be sent to: 'usenet4gareth' followed by an at symbol followed by 'uk2' followed by a dot followed by 'net' __________________________________________________ |
I think this is a bit like saying 20 years ago that your standard C60
audio cassette tapes don't suffer from any 'hiss' problems because the general public don't perceive there to be a problem. No, it's not like saying that. 20 years ago there were valid alternatives to domestic audio cassette tapes which didn't suffer from hiss and which provided a baseline reference for a "hiss-free" sound in the same way as there are mediums now which are perceived not to suffer lip-sync in the same way as plasmas, today. You could also buy superior cassette recorders 20 years ago compared with today and, many would argue, obtain superior results from these decks. On top of that, the cassette=hiss argument is as valid as the plasma=lip sync argument. A good cassette deck with a good formulation cassette can deliver a sensational sound in which hiss is not an issue. Hiss is most often an issue with cassette deck users because of misuse or misdesign: poorly set record levels, bad formulation cassettes with no headroom, dodgy tape deck designs which don't provide record level control etc. So, just as hiss-problems are not an inherent problem of domestic audio cassette tapes, I would argue that lip-sync is not an inherent problem of plasma screens. They might be faithfully reproducing a source problem or be of a cheap, bad design. You've misunderstood my point and in fact agreed with it! 20 years ago, the 'standard' cassette deck WAS a cheap bad design, but as most people were (are!) either ignorant of what a 'good' system could/should sound like, or just didn't/couldn't hear how crap it was, or didn't care!, hiss was most certainly there in most peoples systems at that time, regardless if there were better alternatives, or tape systems that were indeed of much better quality. No, I'm not comparing with different tape formats, but what I very carefully described as "domestic audio cassette tape" recorders which, even in their modest-priced forms can sound terrific. EG My Denon DRM740 - approx £240 12 years ago - which sounds outstanding with any half-decent cassette and a sensibly recorded track. I agree that plasma displays can be made to not give bad lip sync problems. It doesn't mean that all designs out there are made that way at the moment. Lip sync is most definitely out there! So are you saying that you feel lip sync ISN'T an inherent plasma problem? |
In article , just me
wrote: Bottom line is that the set *shouldn't* give you this trouble - plasma screens do not inherently have lip sync problems - any potential issues caused through delays in ADADADAD video conversion on board should be addressed in the design. Is the above the reason? I had thought it was due to the reprocessing required to scale the number of lines in the input image onto the number of rows of pixels in the display. Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html |
Quite simply, if there is a delay in displaying the picture (as there
will inherantly be the way a plasma displays an interlaced picture in its progressive manner), then the sound will be out of sync unless there is a delay built into the audio signal. In theory, there's nothing to stop the display manufacter building this into the audio circuitry pretty cheaply but I'm guessing it won't happen as many folk don't use the display audio anyway and manufacturers are always after least cost. There was a super article in Sound on Sound recently on this issue (albeit with LCD PC monitors) covering how it made them hard to use with audio software, and explaining how (in that case) delaying the audio introduces other problems: http://tinyurl.com/34akj The Behringer Virtualiser DSP2024P is about the cheapest (but fine for the job) audio delay unit that you can buy. £96 & £10 delivery from Digital Village: http://www.dv247.com/invt/4982 Of course the above audio delay will only be for those using a non-digital connection. Joe - you talked a while ago about a forthcoming product that would provide cheap delay both for analog and digital signals - any news? My experience? With a Pioneer 444 player, I used to notice sync issues on my old CRT TV, notably with Star Wars Ep 1. Things are definitely more pronounced with my Panasonic 4 series plasma, and even more so with my Pace Twins FreeView box. I guess the real answer is to set up a range of delay times and pick the one which works best at the time. |
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