Considering my first plasma screen
 

So I have finally decided to ditch the old telly and get a plasma screen.

Yes yes, I know a projector is better but it isn't really practical for my
setup.

Finding reviews for plasma screens has prooved more difficult than I thought
at first, the only proper (i.e. paper) ones I have found have been from What
HiFi magazine:

First they recommended:

JVC PD-42D30ES for £5,500

This month they recommend the:

Pioneer PDP-434HDE for £4500

The above two are 42 inch screens, but I noticed that there was a 50 inch
version of the Pioneer for sale:

Pioneer PDP-504HDE for £5799

This seems like quite a good deal, a 50 inch screen for under £6k. But is it
any good? I am really having trouble finding any reviews for this, online or
offline.

Also, WhatHiFi magazine recommends using a Pioneer DVD player (which costs
£1000 (!)) and a Pioneer amp to take advantage of Pioneer's "HDMI"
interconnects. Along with surround speakers this pushes the system price to
nearly £9k. Is this worth it?

Finally, I am confused about where to buy. Shops I have visisted tend to
have a poor range, or silly prices, so I am looking online. So far the
places I see with reasonable choice a

www.empiredirect.co.uk
www.homecinemaheaven.com

I have had experience with empire direct before, and it wasn't very good,
very slow and too many phone calls to get my product.

How about home cinema heaven? They seem to have a better selection of audio
equipment, but the plasma screen prices are slightly higher.

Anyone any recommendations?

"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
...
First they recommended:

JVC PD-42D30ES for £5,500

This month they recommend the:

Pioneer PDP-434HDE for £4500

£3,995 at a number of places including www.avland.co.uk and www.ivojo.co.uk

These are both companies I have dealt with before without issue. (So far!
;-)

The above two are 42 inch screens, but I noticed that there was a 50 inch
version of the Pioneer for sale:

Pioneer PDP-504HDE for £5799

£5,499 as above...

This seems like quite a good deal, a 50 inch screen for under £6k. But is
it
any good? I am really having trouble finding any reviews for this, online
or
offline.

Remember that you will have to factor in the cost of a stand/bracket...
(Can be £150 to £300!)

But most important is connectivity!!!!!! Be sure you understand the output
from your devices and the inputs on the display. You may also need to buy
convertor boxes/switches/leads too. Most plasma's don't have SCART
connections (although its starting to become more popular) and you need
component to do progressive scan.

Also, WhatHiFi magazine recommends using a Pioneer DVD player (which costs
£1000 (!)) and a Pioneer amp to take advantage of Pioneer's "HDMI"
interconnects. Along with surround speakers this pushes the system price
to
nearly £9k. Is this worth it?

Depends on your budget... Personally I prefer the Panasonic plasma's - be
wary of manufacturers proprietry interconnects, it limits you in the future.
Best to stick to standard interconnection unless you really must have the
'ultimate' and love the brand.

That £1,000 DVD is available for £800 - but personally I'd look at the new
Denon DVD-2200 - £500.

Finally, I am confused about where to buy. Shops I have visisted tend to
have a poor range, or silly prices, so I am looking online. So far the
places I see with reasonable choice a

It's the usual decision... Pay more and have 'local' support or get it
cheaper on the net! Most local support doesn't amount to much though!

Justin.

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:16:50 -0000, "Oliver Keating"
wrote:

So I have finally decided to ditch the old telly and get a plasma screen.

Yes yes, I know a projector is better but it isn't really practical for my
setup.
[snip]
Anyone any recommendations?

Panasonic series 6 42". View both the Pioneer and Panasonics before
you buy, don't know about thi left field JVC offering, but most people
only choose between the two big Ps.

Personally I chose the Panny over the Pioneer due to black levels and
contrast ratio, although that was a decision based on the equivalent
models 2 years ago.

Lee.
--
Founder, DVD Debate
http://www.dvddebate.com
lee at dvddebate dot com

Is the owner of Hotpoint a Fridge Magnate?

"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
...
So I have finally decided to ditch the old telly and get a plasma screen.

Hi Oliver!

Try your local richersounds for value for money and advice - they have good
deals on domestic plasma TVs which compete with the online prices and you
get to play and take away. Wait until the middle of the month though, got a
DVD from them today and they're mega busy.

I have never had any trouble with Richer Sounds. Panasonic plasma 2499

http://www.richersounds.com/index.ph...l.php&p=206557

without tuner, but not a problem for most people now (get a twin tuner
freeview or a sky+ box)

50" pioneer is 4999 from them.


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"Tim S Kemp" wrote in message
...

"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
...
So I have finally decided to ditch the old telly and get a plasma
screen.
Try your local richersounds for value for money and advice - they have
good
deals on domestic plasma TVs which compete with the online prices and you
get to play and take away. Wait until the middle of the month though, got
a
DVD from them today and they're mega busy.

I have never had any trouble with Richer Sounds. Panasonic plasma 2499

http://www.richersounds.com/index.ph...l.php&p=206557


They're selling the old version '5' models - avoid!

Justin.

"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
...
So I have finally decided to ditch the old telly and get a plasma screen.

Yes yes, I know a projector is better but it isn't really practical for my
setup.

You reckon - alignment, burn out, walking in front, image brightness and
power consumption...


Finding reviews for plasma screens has prooved more difficult than I
thought
at first, the only proper (i.e. paper) ones I have found have been from
What
HiFi magazine:

First they recommended:

JVC PD-42D30ES for £5,500

This month they recommend the:

Pioneer PDP-434HDE for £4500

The above two are 42 inch screens, but I noticed that there was a 50 inch
version of the Pioneer for sale:

Pioneer PDP-504HDE for £5799

This seems like quite a good deal, a 50 inch screen for under £6k. But is
it
any good? I am really having trouble finding any reviews for this, online
or
offline.

Also, WhatHiFi magazine recommends using a Pioneer DVD player (which costs
£1000 (!)) and a Pioneer amp to take advantage of Pioneer's "HDMI"
interconnects. Along with surround speakers this pushes the system price
to
nearly £9k. Is this worth it?

The DVD is definitely NOT worth it.


Finally, I am confused about where to buy. Shops I have visisted tend to
have a poor range, or silly prices, so I am looking online. So far the
places I see with reasonable choice a

www.empiredirect.co.uk
www.homecinemaheaven.com

Try Sound & Vision in Bolton [le Moors*], D&C or Richer Sounds.

What Video & Widescreen (Nov. Edition) has a table of review results.

Including only the (best for any make) 1024 x 768+ for 42" these a -

Fujitsu P42HHS10S £5k4 5
Hitachi CL42MA400E £3k 5 "no tuner"
JVC PD-42PD20 £6k5 (1280x1024) 4.5
JVC PD-42D30ES £5k5 4
Philips 42PF9964 £5k8 4.5 "one of the best plasma's money can buy"
Sony KE-42MR1 £8k 4 "flawed performance"

ignore 852x480 42" screens.

There are larger higher resolution screens from

Fujitsu, NEC, Panasonic, Pioneer (not reviewed), Samsung, Sharp, Thompson,
Toshiba and Yamaha. None under £5k though.

You need to be about 3m from a 36", 4m from a 42" and 5m from a 50" in order
to be able to view it properly.

For my money the Philips 9964 is the best because: -

Pixel Plus cleans up the image (seen this working at a show).
Best tuner box with loads of inputs including VGA.
Best teletext.
About £3k5 on the street.

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
ignore 852x480 42" screens.

Why?

Justin.

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:19:19 +0000, David Hemmings
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 23:55:36 -0000, "Nath" wrote:


"Justin Cole" wrote in message
...
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
ignore 852x480 42" screens.

Why?

Justin.



PAL will have to be scaled down (therefore loose rez) to 480 lines.

However NTSC is 480 lines so no scaling is done. I've seen the Panasonics-
pretty good picture, although at the same viewing distance as my own 42"
screen I can see the pixel resolution

which ntsc, i always remember it as 525 lines ?

NTSC has 525 total lines, of which 480 are picture lines. Similarly,
PAL has 625 lines, of which 576 are picture lines. Hence, a Region 1
DVD is 720x480, and a Region 2 DVD is 720x576.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Nath" wrote in message
. ..
"Justin Cole" wrote in message
...
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
ignore 852x480 42" screens.

Why?


PAL will have to be scaled down (therefore loose rez) to 480 lines.

I know that - but the other option is not exactly great either! ;-)

The OP said to totally ignore 480 displays - I don't agree... We're not
likely to get a HDTV feed anytime in the future so 480 screens are just
fine... The Panasonic scaling is excellent.

Justin.

Hi there,

you'll be pleased to know there is a magazine called "What Plasma" from the
makers of What TV. You should find the first issue on sale at your local W H
Smith now. Try the computing section and the entertainment section. Cant
make up their mind what classification it is.

AR


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"Nath" wrote in message
. ..

"Justin Cole" wrote in message
...
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
ignore 852x480 42" screens.

Why?

Justin.



PAL will have to be scaled down (therefore loose rez) to 480 lines.

However NTSC is 480 lines so no scaling is done. I've seen the Panasonics-
pretty good picture, although at the same viewing distance as my own 42"
screen I can see the pixel resolution



You talk such ****ing ****e like I have never read. Idiot face, It's no
wonder you can see the pixels on the plasma, it's 2 feet away from your wank
tube woofer & your spunky bed, live at home povvie.

Sell your supposed gear & buy a house you ****ing titwrench.

BTW, I have had both 40"+ rear Pros & 42inch plasma's, you talk utter
****ing cowslurry.

"Justin Cole" wrote in message
...
"Nath" wrote in message
. ..
"Justin Cole" wrote in message
...
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
ignore 852x480 42" screens.

Why?


PAL will have to be scaled down (therefore loose rez) to 480 lines.

I know that - but the other option is not exactly great either! ;-)

The OP said to totally ignore 480 displays - I don't agree... We're not
likely to get a HDTV feed anytime in the future so 480 screens are just
fine... The Panasonic scaling is excellent.

Justin.



Exactly Justin, don't listen to others (who normally don't own the said
item) use your OWN eyes/ears to judge. By purchasing & living with the said
item puts you well in front of shop window reviewers like (Burger King)
Nath.

"Justin Cole" wrote in message
...
"Nath" wrote in message
. ..
"Justin Cole" wrote in message
...
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
ignore 852x480 42" screens.

Why?


PAL will have to be scaled down (therefore loose rez) to 480 lines.

I know that - but the other option is not exactly great either! ;-)

The OP said to totally ignore 480 displays -

I didn't say "totally".

I don't agree... We're not
likely to get a HDTV feed anytime in the future so 480 screens are just
fine... The Panasonic scaling is excellent.

Justin.



Well except that there are 576 lines in a PAL picture.

The other reason [for me anyway] is that you can put a small slave PC in the
lounge and do a bit of web browsing from the sofa. True VGA is 640x480 and
will fit, but a higher resolution screen will be able to display something a
little more useful.

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
"Justin Cole" wrote in message
...
...
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
ignore 852x480 42" screens.

Why?


PAL will have to be scaled down (therefore loose rez) to 480 lines.
I know that - but the other option is not exactly great either! ;-)
The OP said to totally ignore 480 displays -

I didn't say "totally".

So which bit of 'ignore 852x480 42" screens' doesn't mean "totally"? :)

I don't agree... We're not
likely to get a HDTV feed anytime in the future so 480 screens are just
fine... The Panasonic scaling is excellent.

Well except that there are 576 lines in a PAL picture.

Indeed - but even with an NTSC signal you're not likely to get a 1:1 line
mapping. It's one of the 'problems' with a fixed resolution display - you
can't have the best of both worlds...

An excellent article of 480 vs 1024 is he http://tinyurl.com/2hw7m

The other reason [for me anyway] is that you can put a small slave PC in
the
lounge and do a bit of web browsing from the sofa. True VGA is 640x480
and
will fit, but a higher resolution screen will be able to display something
a
little more useful.

That's the only reason to go for a higher res plasma... (IMHO)

Justin.

"AR" wrote in message ...
Hi there,

you'll be pleased to know there is a magazine called "What Plasma" from
the
makers of What TV. You should find the first issue on sale at your local W
H
Smith now. Try the computing section and the entertainment section. Cant
make up their mind what classification it is.

AR

This does sound interesting - will try and check it out!

I hope their opinions can be trusted, quite often I find reviewers seem to
vary greatly in what they say about products.


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"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...

"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
...
So I have finally decided to ditch the old telly and get a plasma
screen.

Yes yes, I know a projector is better but it isn't really practical for
my
setup.

You reckon - alignment, burn out, walking in front, image brightness and
power consumption...

Having seen image quality, in terms of performance per pound you do get a
lot more with a projector, I mean £2.5k buys you a basic 42 inch plasma
display (852*480), but you can buy a 1024x786 projector for the same money,
that can easily give you a 60 inch screen.

But issues such as you mentioned mean that I have ruled them out.


Finding reviews for plasma screens has prooved more difficult than I
thought
at first, the only proper (i.e. paper) ones I have found have been from
What
HiFi magazine:

First they recommended:

JVC PD-42D30ES for £5,500

This month they recommend the:

Pioneer PDP-434HDE for £4500

The above two are 42 inch screens, but I noticed that there was a 50
inch
version of the Pioneer for sale:

Pioneer PDP-504HDE for £5799

This seems like quite a good deal, a 50 inch screen for under £6k. But
is
it
any good? I am really having trouble finding any reviews for this,
online
or
offline.

Also, WhatHiFi magazine recommends using a Pioneer DVD player (which
costs
£1000 (!)) and a Pioneer amp to take advantage of Pioneer's "HDMI"
interconnects. Along with surround speakers this pushes the system price
to
nearly £9k. Is this worth it?

The DVD is definitely NOT worth it.

I have always wondered if there is any discernable picture quality
difference between the very cheapest (£29.99) DVD players, and the most
expensive (over £1,000).

In the days of video there were noticeable differences between cheap and
expensive machines, but now I am far less convinced when everything is
digital decoding.


Finally, I am confused about where to buy. Shops I have visisted tend to
have a poor range, or silly prices, so I am looking online. So far the
places I see with reasonable choice a

www.empiredirect.co.uk
www.homecinemaheaven.com

Try Sound & Vision in Bolton [le Moors*], D&C or Richer Sounds.

Is that the "Sevenoaks Sound & Vision"? I have one near me in Crawley.

What Video & Widescreen (Nov. Edition) has a table of review results.

Including only the (best for any make) 1024 x 768+ for 42" these a -

Fujitsu P42HHS10S £5k4 5
Hitachi CL42MA400E £3k 5 "no tuner"
JVC PD-42PD20 £6k5 (1280x1024) 4.5
JVC PD-42D30ES £5k5 4
Philips 42PF9964 £5k8 4.5 "one of the best plasma's money can buy"
Sony KE-42MR1 £8k 4 "flawed performance"

ignore 852x480 42" screens.

I agree with this statement entirely, that is a pretty low res and at that
point you are merely sacrificing quality to achieve size.

There are larger higher resolution screens from

Fujitsu, NEC, Panasonic, Pioneer (not reviewed), Samsung, Sharp, Thompson,
Toshiba and Yamaha. None under £5k though.

You need to be about 3m from a 36", 4m from a 42" and 5m from a 50" in
order
to be able to view it properly.

For my money the Philips 9964 is the best because: -

Pixel Plus cleans up the image (seen this working at a show).
Best tuner box with loads of inputs including VGA.
Best teletext.
About £3k5 on the street.


OK well cheers I will have to add it to my shortlist and check it out!

"Tim S Kemp" wrote in message
...

"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
...
So I have finally decided to ditch the old telly and get a plasma
screen.

Hi Oliver!

Hi Tim- tis a small world eh? :)

Try your local richersounds for value for money and advice - they have
good
deals on domestic plasma TVs which compete with the online prices and you
get to play and take away. Wait until the middle of the month though, got
a
DVD from them today and they're mega busy.

I have never had any trouble with Richer Sounds. Panasonic plasma 2499

I hadn't thought of them, I didn't know they had gotten into the plasma
business, my main criteria though is choice, most places only have 2 or 3
displays running, not really enough to get a really good feel for the
relative quality.

http://www.richersounds.com/index.ph...l.php&p=206557

without tuner, but not a problem for most people now (get a twin tuner
freeview or a sky+ box)

I have Sky, so I would probably not use the tuner anyway

50" pioneer is 4999 from them.


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
...
I have always wondered if there is any discernable picture quality
difference between the very cheapest (£29.99) DVD players, and the most
expensive (over £1,000).
In the days of video there were noticeable differences between cheap and
expensive machines, but now I am far less convinced when everything is
digital decoding.

That's true to a degree. It's all a question of diminishing returns, a DVD
player costing £400 is not twice as good as one costing £200. Buy a DVD
player based on it's features (e.g. progressive scan) and your budget...


ignore 852x480 42" screens.

I agree with this statement entirely, that is a pretty low res and at that
point you are merely sacrificing quality to achieve size.

In modern terms it *is* 'low res' but remember the signal that will be fed
to the display is roughly the same. A higher res screen does not invent
extra information that is not there!

Best to test a 480 and 1024 display side-by-side with your typical inputs.
Any decent shop will do this - it's a large sum of cash to part with without
demo'ing first...

If you're feeding VGA to it (from a PC) then the higher res is almost
certainly worth the extra.

Justin.

"Justin Cole" wrote in message
...
"Nath" wrote in message
. ..
"Justin Cole" wrote in message
...
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
ignore 852x480 42" screens.

Why?


PAL will have to be scaled down (therefore loose rez) to 480 lines.

I know that - but the other option is not exactly great either! ;-)

The OP said to totally ignore 480 displays - I don't agree... We're not
likely to get a HDTV feed anytime in the future so 480 screens are just
fine... The Panasonic scaling is excellent.

I find that downscaling tends to look better than upscaling unless you're
using an outboard scaler, too...

I'd rather have a 480 screen than one of those weird 1024x1024-but-16:9
jobs. Don't trust non-square pixels! ;)

-Vin

"Justin Cole" wrote in message
...
"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
...
I have always wondered if there is any discernable picture quality
difference between the very cheapest (£29.99) DVD players, and the most
expensive (over £1,000).
In the days of video there were noticeable differences between cheap and
expensive machines, but now I am far less convinced when everything is
digital decoding.

That's true to a degree. It's all a question of diminishing returns, a
DVD
player costing £400 is not twice as good as one costing £200. Buy a DVD
player based on it's features (e.g. progressive scan) and your budget...


ignore 852x480 42" screens.

I agree with this statement entirely, that is a pretty low res and at
that
point you are merely sacrificing quality to achieve size.

In modern terms it *is* 'low res' but remember the signal that will be fed
to the display is roughly the same. A higher res screen does not invent
extra information that is not there!

No, but I think there is an advantage to be had even if the screen is at a
higher res than the signal, modern electronics usually interpolate the
image, so it does actually look better even though technically there is no
extra detail.

Best to test a 480 and 1024 display side-by-side with your typical inputs.
Any decent shop will do this - it's a large sum of cash to part with
without
demo'ing first...

I have had a glance, and IMO 480's are not worth bothering with. When you
consider you can get a top-of-the-range 32 inch widescreen TV for half the
price, which offers a much better picture, then the basic plasma's don't
make a good case for themselves.

If you're feeding VGA to it (from a PC) then the higher res is almost
certainly worth the extra.

Justin.

"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
...
"Justin Cole" wrote in message
...
"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
...
ignore 852x480 42" screens.

I agree with this statement entirely, that is a pretty low res and at
that
point you are merely sacrificing quality to achieve size.

In modern terms it *is* 'low res' but remember the signal that will be
fed
to the display is roughly the same. A higher res screen does not invent
extra information that is not there!

No, but I think there is an advantage to be had even if the screen is at a
higher res than the signal, modern electronics usually interpolate the
image, so it does actually look better even though technically there is no
extra detail.

Is this based on actual side-by-side comparison or just theory? It is
generally agreed that 480 screens handle 'normal' video signals better than
1024's. Of course some 1024's will make a good job but interpolation can
make things worse and 'artificial'. It all boils down to what your eye
detects (or has learnt to detect...)

Best to test a 480 and 1024 display side-by-side with your typical
inputs.
Any decent shop will do this - it's a large sum of cash to part with
without
demo'ing first...

I have had a glance, and IMO 480's are not worth bothering with. When you
consider you can get a top-of-the-range 32 inch widescreen TV for half the
price, which offers a much better picture, then the basic plasma's don't
make a good case for themselves.

CRT with much better picture!? The Panasonic plasma's give CRTs a very hard
time - plus you get an extra 10 inches! (Every man's dream ;-) Start
putting NTSC through them and the plasma wins hands down!

Justin.

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...

"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
...
So I have finally decided to ditch the old telly and get a plasma
screen.

Yes yes, I know a projector is better but it isn't really practical for
my
setup.

You reckon - alignment, burn out, walking in front, image brightness and
power consumption...


Finding reviews for plasma screens has prooved more difficult than I
thought
at first, the only proper (i.e. paper) ones I have found have been from
What
HiFi magazine:

First they recommended:

JVC PD-42D30ES for £5,500

This month they recommend the:

Pioneer PDP-434HDE for £4500

The above two are 42 inch screens, but I noticed that there was a 50
inch
version of the Pioneer for sale:

Pioneer PDP-504HDE for £5799

This seems like quite a good deal, a 50 inch screen for under £6k. But
is
it
any good? I am really having trouble finding any reviews for this,
online
or
offline.

Also, WhatHiFi magazine recommends using a Pioneer DVD player (which
costs
£1000 (!)) and a Pioneer amp to take advantage of Pioneer's "HDMI"
interconnects. Along with surround speakers this pushes the system price
to
nearly £9k. Is this worth it?

The DVD is definitely NOT worth it.


Finally, I am confused about where to buy. Shops I have visisted tend to
have a poor range, or silly prices, so I am looking online. So far the
places I see with reasonable choice a

www.empiredirect.co.uk
www.homecinemaheaven.com

Try Sound & Vision in Bolton [le Moors*], D&C or Richer Sounds.

What Video & Widescreen (Nov. Edition) has a table of review results.

Including only the (best for any make) 1024 x 768+ for 42" these a -

Fujitsu P42HHS10S £5k4 5
Hitachi CL42MA400E £3k 5 "no tuner"
JVC PD-42PD20 £6k5 (1280x1024) 4.5
JVC PD-42D30ES £5k5 4
Philips 42PF9964 £5k8 4.5 "one of the best plasma's money can buy"
Sony KE-42MR1 £8k 4 "flawed performance"

ignore 852x480 42" screens.

There are larger higher resolution screens from

Fujitsu, NEC, Panasonic, Pioneer (not reviewed), Samsung, Sharp, Thompson,
Toshiba and Yamaha. None under £5k though.

You need to be about 3m from a 36", 4m from a 42" and 5m from a 50" in
order
to be able to view it properly.

For my money the Philips 9964 is the best because: -

Pixel Plus cleans up the image (seen this working at a show).
Best tuner box with loads of inputs including VGA.
Best teletext.
About £3k5 on the street.

I looked at one of these about a week ago and I thought it was dreadful.
The picture was chock full of atrifacts and halo effects. I couldn't see
much difference with the extra res either.

I suspect the input signal was lacking but the Panny was clearly much
better. Personally, at the moment the interpolation electronics arn't good
enough. PAL up converted to 1024 or 852 looks worse than down converted to
480. Why we can't get a 576 line plasma is still a mystery.