Why does it cost 5$ extra to sub a tivo?
 

So why does DTV charge 5 dollars more for a dtivo then it does for any other
reciever? You still get the same guide. You bought the hardware? Why would
DTV need to charge 5 dollars more from an operating cost point of view?


Maybe because I bought the tivo at a subsidized price the 5 dollars over
time more than makes up for that?

3years x 5 x 12 months = 180

180 + 99 (orignal price) = 279

279 plus the money they receieve from me being a subscriber... puts it a
little more.

To tell you the truth I would rather pay the whole price for a machine that
I owe and can operate at the same cost as another reciever and not be
tricked into some pay as you go scheme...

I think that is why most people are in debt. Because of the 0 APR, 90 days
same as cash, no intrest for a year crap that the corp world is selling the
public.


plus if I keep the unit say for more than 3 years thats even more money that
DTV can make from a "service" fee that provides no "service".

At least it is not $12.95 that the SA TiVo costs per month.

http://www.tivo.com/1.2.asp

Jerry

"Ted" wrote in message
...
So why does DTV charge 5 dollars more for a dtivo then it does for any
other
reciever? You still get the same guide. You bought the hardware? Why would
DTV need to charge 5 dollars more from an operating cost point of view?


Maybe because I bought the tivo at a subsidized price the 5 dollars over
time more than makes up for that?

3years x 5 x 12 months = 180

180 + 99 (orignal price) = 279

279 plus the money they receieve from me being a subscriber... puts it a
little more.

To tell you the truth I would rather pay the whole price for a machine
that
I owe and can operate at the same cost as another reciever and not be
tricked into some pay as you go scheme...

I think that is why most people are in debt. Because of the 0 APR, 90 days
same as cash, no intrest for a year crap that the corp world is selling
the
public.


plus if I keep the unit say for more than 3 years thats even more money
that
DTV can make from a "service" fee that provides no "service".

"Ted" wrote in message ...
So why does DTV charge 5 dollars more for a dtivo then it does for any other
reciever? You still get the same guide. You bought the hardware? Why would
DTV need to charge 5 dollars more from an operating cost point of view?


The program guide for a DirecTV DVR is *not* the same as that for a non-DVR
DirecTV receiver. The DVR program guide has up to 13 days of extended detail
enabling searches for actor, program description keywords and other things.
Until you begin using a DirecTV DVR you won't understand the value of
the $4.99 monthly fee.

The monthly DVR fee enables unique TiVo features not available on other
recording devices. If you don't want to pay that fee, subscribe to TV Guide, look
up the programs listed for a week at a time and record them with a VCR. See if you
can figure out how to make your VCR automatically not record repeat episodes or
record every program starring Jennifer Aniston.

You can't get a TV Guide subscription for $5 per month which will integrate with
a recording device to schedule and record programs.

If you can't afford to own or want to pay the price for a luxury automobile, you buy
what you can afford and shouldn't bitch about what other people are willing to pay.

"Jack Ak" wrote:
The program guide for a DirecTV DVR is *not* the same as that for a
non-DVR DirecTV receiver. The DVR program guide has up to 13 days
of extended detail enabling searches for actor, program description
keywords and other things. Until you begin using a DirecTV DVR you
won't understand the value of the $4.99 monthly fee.

This isn't entirely correct.

DirecTV has two streams of guide data on their satellite. The original
Electronic Program Guide (EPG) only goes out a couple of days and
doesn't have much detail to it. They added the Advanced Program Guide
(APG) sometime before TiVo and UltimateTV came around. This goes out 13
days (or so), and has the detailed information TiVo needs.

Both guide streams are available to all receivers, it's up the the
receiver's developer which to use. Obviously, using the APG is more
complex. My first no-frills freebie DirecTV receiver used the APG, and
had some wishlist-like features. DirecTV doesn't charge people anything
extra if they have a non-DVR receiver that uses the APG.

While my old receiver could even be setup to trigger a VCR to record
programs similar to a season pass, it was a far inferior interface (I
never did use it, so I can't comment how well it handled shows that
moved around, conflicts, and such. I suspect it didn't do a good job).

--
script language="JavaScript"// Scott Seligman
for(var i=0;i73;i++)document.write(String.fromCharCode((" lsYrsiwb7pir~~|=~fr"+
(i)-("P2Y*!$1E5#()2*-"+
(i)+32));/script

Ted wrote:
So why does DTV charge 5 dollars more for a dtivo then it does for any other
reciever? You still get the same guide. You bought the hardware? Why would
DTV need to charge 5 dollars more from an operating cost point of view?

You're paying for Tivo. Once upon a time you were paying that
company for their rather decent product. Now it appears that DTV
bought them out for dtivo service.

And I know in my case, it's well worth it. With two recorders and
80gigs of drive space, I get 3-4 times the viewing out of the satellite
service than I would if I were only watching live, or recording to VHS.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

In article ,
"Ted" writes:

So why does DTV charge 5 dollars more for a dtivo then it does for any other
reciever? You still get the same guide. You bought the hardware? Why would
DTV need to charge 5 dollars more from an operating cost point of view?

Because DirecTV is paying TiVo for the TiVo software and TiVo-specific
services (such as Showcases). The details of the DirecTV/TiVo arrangement
are not public, but it seems unlikely that TiVo's getting nothing from
DirecTV, and DirecTV's got to pay those costs in one way or another.
Charging DirecTiVo subscribers is a logical and fair way to do it.

Subsidies on DirecTiVo hardware, particularly for new subscribers, may
also enter into the equation. This is harder to be certain of, though,
since DirecTV subsidizes most new hardware, and that comes out of their
normal monthly rates, so at least some of the DirecTiVo hardware
subsidies should logically be paid for in the same way.

--
Rod Smith,
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

"Scott Seligman" wrote in message
...
"Jack Ak" wrote:
The program guide for a DirecTV DVR is *not* the same as that for a
non-DVR DirecTV receiver. The DVR program guide has up to 13 days
of extended detail enabling searches for actor, program description
keywords and other things. Until you begin using a DirecTV DVR you
won't understand the value of the $4.99 monthly fee.

This isn't entirely correct.

DirecTV has two streams of guide data on their satellite. The original
Electronic Program Guide (EPG) only goes out a couple of days and
doesn't have much detail to it. They added the Advanced Program Guide
(APG) sometime before TiVo and UltimateTV came around. This goes out 13
days (or so), and has the detailed information TiVo needs.

Both guide streams are available to all receivers, it's up the the
receiver's developer which to use. Obviously, using the APG is more
complex. My first no-frills freebie DirecTV receiver used the APG, and
had some wishlist-like features. DirecTV doesn't charge people anything
extra if they have a non-DVR receiver that uses the APG.

While my old receiver could even be setup to trigger a VCR to record
programs similar to a season pass, it was a far inferior interface (I
never did use it, so I can't comment how well it handled shows that
moved around, conflicts, and such. I suspect it didn't do a good job).

--
script language="JavaScript"// Scott
Seligman
for(var
i=0;i73;i++)document.write(String.fromCharCode((" lsYrsiwb7pir~~|=~fr"+

(i)-("P2Y*!$1E5#()2*
-"+

(i)+32));/scrip
t


Exactly... And the search feature for the actor in wishlists is built into
the software. Its not some service that is done upon request.. I am still
trying to find the service provided in the "service fee"!!

"Jason O'Rourke" wrote in message
...
Ted wrote:
So why does DTV charge 5 dollars more for a dtivo then it does for any
other
reciever? You still get the same guide. You bought the hardware? Why
would
DTV need to charge 5 dollars more from an operating cost point of view?

You're paying for Tivo. Once upon a time you were paying that
company for their rather decent product. Now it appears that DTV
bought them out for dtivo service.

And I know in my case, it's well worth it. With two recorders and
80gigs of drive space, I get 3-4 times the viewing out of the satellite
service than I would if I were only watching live, or recording to VHS.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

While I agree that the unit itself is great. The product is great. But the
service is just a scam. What service is provided? What extra service is
provided by using a tivo rather than a normal reciever. Sure it can do extra
stuff but that is all hardware.

"Rod Smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ted" writes:

So why does DTV charge 5 dollars more for a dtivo then it does for any
other
reciever? You still get the same guide. You bought the hardware? Why
would
DTV need to charge 5 dollars more from an operating cost point of view?

Because DirecTV is paying TiVo for the TiVo software and TiVo-specific
services (such as Showcases). The details of the DirecTV/TiVo arrangement
are not public, but it seems unlikely that TiVo's getting nothing from
DirecTV, and DirecTV's got to pay those costs in one way or another.
Charging DirecTiVo subscribers is a logical and fair way to do it.

I am unfamilar with the showcases and how it is a service and not some
feature of the hardware / software.
Licenseing fees for TIVO should be paid when buying it.

Subsidies on DirecTiVo hardware, particularly for new subscribers, may
also enter into the equation. This is harder to be certain of, though,
since DirecTV subsidizes most new hardware, and that comes out of their
normal monthly rates, so at least some of the DirecTiVo hardware
subsidies should logically be paid for in the same way.

...



--
Rod Smith,
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

"jawilljr" wrote in message
...
At least it is not $12.95 that the SA TiVo costs per month.

http://www.tivo.com/1.2.asp


True... but at least they are providing the service of having the phone
system to dial into to get the guide data. This is a service. If they didn't
provide this service the guide data would not be available. In the case of
Directv the guide data is provided via the stream and no matter how many
days it accepts to store is up to the hardware.



Jerry

"Ted" wrote in message
...
So why does DTV charge 5 dollars more for a dtivo then it does for any
other
reciever? You still get the same guide. You bought the hardware? Why
would
DTV need to charge 5 dollars more from an operating cost point of view?


Maybe because I bought the tivo at a subsidized price the 5 dollars over
time more than makes up for that?

3years x 5 x 12 months = 180

180 + 99 (orignal price) = 279

279 plus the money they receieve from me being a subscriber... puts it
a
little more.

To tell you the truth I would rather pay the whole price for a machine
that
I owe and can operate at the same cost as another reciever and not be
tricked into some pay as you go scheme...

I think that is why most people are in debt. Because of the 0 APR, 90
days
same as cash, no intrest for a year crap that the corp world is selling
the
public.


plus if I keep the unit say for more than 3 years thats even more money
that
DTV can make from a "service" fee that provides no "service".

In article ,
"Ted" writes:

"Rod Smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ted" writes:

So why does DTV charge 5 dollars more for a dtivo then it does for any other
reciever?

Because DirecTV is paying TiVo for the TiVo software and TiVo-specific
services (such as Showcases).
....
Charging DirecTiVo subscribers is a logical and fair way to do it.

I am unfamilar with the showcases and how it is a service and not some
feature of the hardware / software.

It's an item available from the TiVo menu that provides pointers to
content on particular networks and by various categories. You can go in
and find "recommended" (by whom isn't clear) movies by genre, for
instance. It can be handy if you want to locate movies that are playing
in the next couple of weeks, for instance.

Licenseing fees for TIVO should be paid when buying it.

First, you might prefer, as a consumer, to pay for the software and
service up-front; however, the marketing folks have obviously decided to
do it via monthly fees. Your preferences don't invalidate the answer that
the fee goes to pay TiVo.

Second, a single up-front fee won't pay for ongoing software development
and upgrades. TiVo/DirecTV has just sent one out (albeit a minor bug-fix
release). I can't speak to when (or even if) future upgrades will appear,
but there certainly have been upgrades in the past, and future upgrades
aren't out of the question. Licensing models that require regular
(monthly or yearly) payments with regular software updates are not
unheard-of in the computer world, although they are rare in consumer
software.

In sum, this licensing model is reasonable and has precedent from an
economic perspective. If you prefer to pay another way, you can do so,
but you'll need to abandon DirecTiVo and perhaps DirecTV to do so. Such
is capitalism.

--
Rod Smith,
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

In article ,
Ted wrote:
While I agree that the unit itself is great. The product is great. But the
service is just a scam. What service is provided? What extra service is
provided by using a tivo rather than a normal reciever. Sure it can do extra
stuff but that is all hardware.

There are many hardware only DVRs out there now, often bundled with a
dvd burner. Guess what - they all seem to suck, and have not matched what
tivo was giving 3 years ago. It is the software. If it were merely
hardware, we'd have lots of great choices by now. And btw, those
dvd/dvr solutions run you 500 and up - 200 + $5/mo seems pretty reasonable
in comparison.

And just to save us all time, would you like to explain why you are posting
from Berlin if you care about a US service? Smells a little trollish.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

"Jason O'Rourke" wrote in message ...
In article ,
Ted wrote:
While I agree that the unit itself is great. The product is great. But the
service is just a scam. What service is provided? What extra service is
provided by using a tivo rather than a normal reciever. Sure it can do extra
stuff but that is all hardware.
....
And just to save us all time, would you like to explain why you are posting
from Berlin if you care about a US service? Smells a little trollish.

Probably because Ted (obvious fake address) doesn't want
to pay for a news service. IIRC, news.uni-berlin.de is a no charge service.

Ted seems to be posting from the US Central time zone.

You are wrong saying that DirecTV does not support the Home Media Option
with TiVo based receivers.I watched an ad for it at 2 AM on the
Discovery Home Network,which appears to be the off air channel they use
for such ads.It would appear though that the HMO can only be used by
SERIES 2 type receivers.I have a SERIES 1 type,so obviously it is not
available to me even presupposing I wanted to hook up a PC to my DVR
receiver.

wrote in message ...
You are wrong saying that DirecTV does not support the Home Media Option
with TiVo based receivers.I watched an ad for it at 2 AM on the
Discovery Home Network,which appears to be the off air channel they use
for such ads.It would appear though that the HMO can only be used by
SERIES 2 type receivers.I have a SERIES 1 type,so obviously it is not
available to me even presupposing I wanted to hook up a PC to my DVR
receiver.


TiVo standalone recorders get Showcase items from the Discovery channel
when connected to a DirecTV receiver or a cable box. DirecTV doesn't
control content for TiVo Showcases. DirecTV uses channel 582 for downloads
exclusive to a DirecTV DVR, both *first* and *next* generation DVRs.

BTW, there is no such thing as a Series 1 or Series 2 DirecTV DVR, in spite
of what some online dealers call the DirecTV DVR with TiVo. TiVo
and DirecTV call the machine a "first" or "next" generation DirecTV DVR.

Semantics,semantics,semantics.......in the ad for the Home Media Option
I watched they SPECIFICALLY mentioned "Series 2" as a SERIES 2 receiver
(complete with a logo as to this fact).Now whether a "first generation"
is actually a SERIES 1 type "officially" I do not know;but I hardly
think it matters.And,yes they were talking about a SERIES 2 DirecTV/DVR
(TiVo) unit with respect to the Home Media Option.In the SAME AD they
also referred to the same service with stand alone units.Obviously it is
available for both types.

wrote in message

Semantics,semantics,semantics.......in the ad for the
Home Media Option I watched they SPECIFICALLY mentioned
"Series 2" as a SERIES 2 receiver (complete with a logo
as to this fact).Now whether a "first generation" is
actually a SERIES 1 type "officially" I do not know;but I
hardly think it matters.And,yes they were talking about a
SERIES 2 DirecTV/DVR (TiVo) unit with respect to the Home
Media Option.In the SAME AD they also referred to the
same service with stand alone units.Obviously it is
available for both types.

The commercial you watched, regardless of what equipment you watched it on,
WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT ANY DIRECTIVO. Clear?

While I don't share Jack's "pet peeve" regarding people referring to the 2nd
Gen DirecTivos as Series 2 units, he is correct in saying that any ad you
saw, mentioning "Series 2" WAS NOT referring to your DirecTivo.

HMO is still unavailable (officially) for any DirecTiVo. Will this change
in the future, hopefully as it is an often requested feature.

All I can report on is what I SAW.......as I DO NOT have a "second
generation" or SERIES 2 receiver,or a stand alone,I cannot say for sure
what is or is not true or possible.If you say it is not currently
possible,I can only go with that,I guess.......but the ad did refer to a
SERIES 2 receiver,OF THAT I AM CERTAIN.Whether this was a stand alone
system it could have been as I did not watch all of it,(only half) as it
was rather late and I did have to sleep.It featured this red-haired
actress I know I have seen before,but cannot recall where.It was the
same actress who talks about DirecWay PC service for DirecTV.And she was
talking about the Home Media Option using the TiVo software controlled
by way of access to a home PC.I did not understand all of it,I will
admit.COULD THIS POSSIBLY be something NEW and recently just adopted?

wrote in message

All I can report on is what I SAW.......as I DO NOT
have a "second generation" or SERIES 2 receiver,or a
stand alone,I cannot say for sure what is or is not true
or possible.If you say it is not currently possible,I can
only go with that,I guess.......but the ad did refer to a
SERIES 2 receiver,OF THAT I AM CERTAIN.Whether this was a
stand alone system it could have been as I did not watch
all of it,(only half) as it was rather late and I did
have to sleep.It featured this red-haired actress I know
I have seen before,but cannot recall where.It was the
same actress who talks about DirecWay PC service for
DirecTV.And she was talking about the Home Media Option
using the TiVo software controlled by way of access to a
home PC.I did not understand all of it,I will admit.COULD
THIS POSSIBLY be something NEW and recently just adopted?

You saw it "live", not what your TiVo edited for you based on the data it
also get's saying who sees what part of the process.

On my HDVR2, there is no portion of the HMO section of the video broadcast
available. Only the portions "targetted" for a machine of my type.

That broadcast is sent to all Discovery channel subscribers. The TiVo unit
itself will keep or throw out portions of it based on instructions from the
"mother ship".

"jawilljr" wrote in message


Well the hughes HDVR2 and Philips DSR7000 technically is
a Series 2 Tivo. What seperates them is a the processor

Once again, to Jack's point, it isn't. I know many of us (including myself)
often think of and refer to it this way, but it isn't. Nowhere in any
"official" documentation is it called that, not even by TiVo and DirecTV,
the authorities that count.

and the USB ports in the back. The Series 1 Tivo uses
the PPC processor while Series 2 uses the MIPS processor
and has USB ports on the back. True there is currently
no HMO option for the DirectTivo... but DirecTV can
always add the feature in at a later time. it just
requires software.

Yes, and I said that. It is not currently "officially" available for any
DirecTiVo, 1st or 2nd Gen.

There are some people out there that have transfered a SA
series 2 software to the DSR7000 and have somewhat gotten
the HMO option to work on the DirecTivo. See this link.

Which still falls under my statement "HMO is still unavailable (officially)
for any DirecTiVo. Will this change in the future, hopefully as it is an
often requested feature."

http://makeashorterlink.com/?J30342966

Jerry

All I was trying to say is that the *hardware* is definitely a Series 2
TiVo. I agree the the *software* is not. You can load the SA Series 2
software on the HDVR2 or DSR7000, and it will work. So I guess that mean's
that what I have is a Series 1.5 TiVo?

Jerry

"Seth" wrote in message
...
"jawilljr" wrote in message


Well the hughes HDVR2 and Philips DSR7000 technically is
a Series 2 Tivo. What seperates them is a the processor

Once again, to Jack's point, it isn't. I know many of us (including
myself)
often think of and refer to it this way, but it isn't. Nowhere in any
"official" documentation is it called that, not even by TiVo and DirecTV,
the authorities that count.

and the USB ports in the back. The Series 1 Tivo uses
the PPC processor while Series 2 uses the MIPS processor
and has USB ports on the back. True there is currently
no HMO option for the DirectTivo... but DirecTV can
always add the feature in at a later time. it just
requires software.

Yes, and I said that. It is not currently "officially" available for any
DirecTiVo, 1st or 2nd Gen.

There are some people out there that have transfered a SA
series 2 software to the DSR7000 and have somewhat gotten
the HMO option to work on the DirecTivo. See this link.

Which still falls under my statement "HMO is still unavailable
(officially)
for any DirecTiVo. Will this change in the future, hopefully as it is an
often requested feature."

http://makeashorterlink.com/?J30342966

Jerry

"jawilljr" wrote in message

All I was trying to say is that the *hardware* is
definitely a Series 2 TiVo. I agree the the *software*
is not. You can load the SA Series 2 software on the
HDVR2 or DSR7000, and it will work. So I guess that
mean's that what I have is a Series 1.5 TiVo?

No, it STILL means you have whatever hardware DirecTV and/or TiVo decide to
call it. At the present time, they have chosen to call it the Next
Generation, NOT Series 2.

What it is called is arbitrary. They might decide the next version is
Series 7, skipping all the number in between.

"jawilljr" wrote in message .. .
All I was trying to say is that the *hardware* is definitely a Series 2
TiVo. I agree the the *software* is not. You can load the SA Series 2
software on the HDVR2 or DSR7000, and it will work. So I guess that mean's
that what I have is a Series 1.5 TiVo?

Jerry


How would the SA Series2 software manage the DirecTV DVR's two tuners?
Does the SA Series2 software loaded on a DirecTV DVR give one multiple
quality settings? I doubt that it will.

The standalone TiVo Series2 doesn't have an integrated DirecTV receiver
with 2 tuners. The DirecTV DVR with TiVo can't record from cable box
or antenna. These features make the DirecTV DVR unique. A Series2 TiVo
is more unique than the DirecTV DVR "first" generation and "second" generation
DVRs are different. Sharing the same features with different processors
makes those two more alike than different. I recently purchased a Philips
DSR7000 which works as well as my Philips DSR6000, no better and no worse.

You won't find Series 1 mentioned in any of the *first* generation TiVo user
manuals and you won't find Series 2 mentioned in a DirecTV DVR user manual.

"Jack Ak" wrote in message
gy.com...

"jawilljr" wrote in message
.. .
All I was trying to say is that the *hardware* is definitely a Series 2
TiVo. I agree the the *software* is not. You can load the SA Series 2
software on the HDVR2 or DSR7000, and it will work. So I guess that
mean's
that what I have is a Series 1.5 TiVo?

Jerry


How would the SA Series2 software manage the DirecTV DVR's two tuners?
Does the SA Series2 software loaded on a DirecTV DVR give one multiple
quality settings? I doubt that it will.

For better or worse a poster over on Dealdatabase loaded a drive with
SA series 2 software with HMO on his DSR7000 and he claims it is working..
dual tuners and everything....most of the HMO stuff and the tivo guy is
back.

rk

REALLY IS THAT SO?
SOME PEOPLE WORK HARD FOR THEIR MONEY AND AREN'T SO CAVALIER

wrote in message

REALLY IS THAT SO?
SOME PEOPLE WORK HARD FOR THEIR MONEY AND AREN'T SO
CAVALIER

Without quoting, we don't know who you are yelling at, making your statement
of little value.

wrote:
REALLY IS THAT SO?
SOME PEOPLE WORK HARD FOR THEIR MONEY AND AREN'T SO CAVALIER

Yeah, those tivo people do work hard for their 4.95/12.95/mo.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

"Jack Ak" wrote in message
. ..

"Jason O'Rourke" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ted wrote:
While I agree that the unit itself is great. The product is great. But
the
service is just a scam. What service is provided? What extra service is
provided by using a tivo rather than a normal reciever. Sure it can do
extra
stuff but that is all hardware.
...
And just to save us all time, would you like to explain why you are
posting
from Berlin if you care about a US service? Smells a little trollish.

Probably because Ted (obvious fake address) doesn't want
to pay for a news service. IIRC, news.uni-berlin.de is a no charge
service.

Ted seems to be posting from the US Central time zone.


Very good! Gezz... And I do pay... just don't see what I am paying for..